The Forecast

Keegan Goudiss (00:20)
Welcome Pamela Wood to your forecast. I'm so excited for you to join me today. For those of you who are just joining, I'm really excited to introduce Pamela, who I met last year on a project. I'm very grateful for the opportunity to, and I'll get to that in a moment, but first just tell everybody a little about yourself. I was really excited to learn about your background of over 20 years in nonprofit fundraising. We met through your current capacity with Step Up Louisiana.

but I was really amazed to learn about all the work that you had done with Black Lives Matter, with the radio station, as well as Habitat for Humanity and United Way of Los Angeles. Just a really amazing array of organizations that you've helped over a couple of decades. So congrats on all the amazing work you've done and thank you for joining.

Pamela L. Wood (01:09)
it's wonderful to be here.

Keegan Goudiss (01:10)
So Pamela, for those who are listening in, you and I met last year while I was helping with some brainstorming sessions that Step Up Louisiana was taking part of. I don't know if you remember, we were right after the election, all sort of collectively asking what next, and you just really impressed me with your energy and zeal.

Pamela L. Wood (01:32)
What?

Keegan Goudiss (01:38)
and really like capturing the moment that we're in now ahead of time. So at that time, I was like sort of formulating that I wanted to put the show together and I was like, Pamela is someone I have to have on. And so thank you so much for joining as my guest.

Pamela L. Wood (01:43)
Thank

Thank

I am so excited to be here. Absolutely right. You just, you know, how you fall into comrades when you start talking about things that really press upon your heart and you just start, you know, you just start talking. And so I totally clicked with you, a couple other folks in there and you know, you never know what can happen. And here we are today sitting in a podcast.

Keegan Goudiss (02:17)
Yeah, here we are. you know, Step Up Louisiana, among many things, achieved this, something I think a lot of people listening to this wouldn't have thought possible a couple years ago, passing a worker bill of rights in the state of Louisiana, as I understand you all, you all knocked over like about 50,000 doors made about 100,000 phone calls on this amazing organizing effort. I'm curious, like, you know, can you share with me what's new with

with Step Up Louisiana as well as like what you're hearing on the ground in Louisiana these days.

Pamela L. Wood (02:54)
Listen, everywhere I go now, the WBOR, the Workers' Bill of Rights, proceeds me because it is such an unusual thing. Number one, we are a small black dot in a very big red state. And I say black dot because we are a majority black city, New Orleans, for those who are not familiar with geography here. And the fact that we are, as they say, holding our own as best we can.

Keegan Goudiss (03:13)
Yes.

Pamela L. Wood (03:20)
and able to do that turnaround, because that was a lot of hard work. We have a legislative person who actually goes down to Baton Rouge to the Capitol and does the advocacy for us. And it is a hand-to-mouth existence if I'm not in your face saying, look, the people are starving. Long story short, we got the bill passed, and it passed with an 80 % majority on that presidential ticket. Now, think about that. We are the engine, the little engine that could

out here trying to push the limit because New Orleans is basically a hospitality tourism city, which means it relies on people who earn low wages and they have for years and years and let's just say that. And to have $15 an hour in this red state is just unheard of. And it's a pat on the back for us, but it's also letting us know, you know what, our voices are stronger than we have been led to believe.

and collectively together, this is what can happen and we can turn the tide. And it just pushes us forward. Absolutely.

Keegan Goudiss (04:22)
That's great. What is like? What is the mood these days as the the new administration continues their their March to?

their march of tyranny.

Pamela L. Wood (04:32)
as you can

see their march of tyranny. You know what? Black folks, I'm gonna be real, black folks have always been close to the ground because of circumstances. And so we don't have far to fall. The fear for us is not something new. As a matter of fact, we're not in a fearful state. We are in a state of, okay, we're gonna take our loss that happened in November

and I'm sure anybody who has any inkling of being on social media, you will hear people talk about the 92%, the 88 % we are going inside and going inside is an okay thing to do because the reality is the fight is not ours. We've done all we can do. And so in Louisiana, yes, it's a big red state. It's the, know, I keep saying we're that tiny black dot and that small inch than that could, but fear doesn't rule us.

Absolutely not. What rules us is that we have to know what is coming. We already knew what was coming and how do we react to it? Not be reactionary, but how do we react to it? How do we turn it around? We've done this a million times before, you know, and the interesting thing is looking at it as a lens of you're looking at everybody else who's panicking and we're just sitting here saying, we've been doing this.

We have been doing this and we know how to pivot. We know how to say, you call us a bad word. We flip the word around. You tell us you're going to take what little social foundations we have. Okay, we've also survived that too. And so it's a matter of, and I hate this word at this point, resilience. I think it's overused, but we're in a moment of resiliency.

And baby, you better come out with, you can throw everything against us at this stage. It is literally not new, you know? And I think our reactions are different because this is the first time others have had to experience it. So that's an interesting lens to look at others experience what we have always experienced all along. And it's just like, okay, welcome to the show. Welcome to the big show. It's been this way all the time. And so,

For us, we are investing in our members, right? So we have about 550 members that are a part of Step Up Louisiana. We listen to their needs, their desires, their fears, their thoughts, and that affects our processes of how we go forward. Having said that, we have something like a mutual aid society, which is very unique to the culture of New Orleans. If you are familiar with New Orleans, and you've seen many years ago, because black folks,

Keegan Goudiss (07:15)
I neurons.

Pamela L. Wood (07:16)
Right. Weren't allowed insurance, homes, all these mortgages. There was mutual aid, right? So they had their own clubs to become the social fabric to help people stay alive. And we are instituting that ourselves. We even do wellness checks. Our door knocks are not just to get out the vote. Our door knocks are to do wellness checks on our members as well. How are you doing? Is there something that's missing from the household? What do you need?

and always going out and saying, what can we do for ourselves? And so the strategy is to stay in motion. Even if you can't see us necessarily, we are in motion.

Keegan Goudiss (07:54)
Were you able to knock on doors with the snow you all have this year?

Pamela L. Wood (07:57)
New Orleanian folks just doubled up on their hoodies. They don't necessarily have coats and things like that. We do have coats, but I'm a New Yorker that's transplanted here. So I was in ecstasy because I could wear all my coats and I wore them every hour on the hour that I could.

Keegan Goudiss (08:02)
Yes.

I always find, mean, I can only imagine being down there, but being a transplant from New York in the mid Atlantic and DC area, it just always amazes me how little people can tolerate stuff where I'm like, this is great. I am curious. So like you made a really important point where we, especially folks that are panicking more right now, you know, should be following your all's lead.

Yeah, and I'm curious like what advice you have for folks listening. On how we can stay focused right like it seems there's not a new concept. Authoritarians have used this like constantly. They know that if they flood the zone with lots and lots of of chaos, it's going to distract us, divide us. Demoralize us so like what it would like. Do you have any recommendations on how we can stay focused on on what? What matters in a time like that?

Pamela L. Wood (08:47)
Thanks.

Thank

Good luck.

Yeah, because at this stage, all politics are local, right? And so what's going to affect you the first thing are going to be those local issues. If you are not familiar what is coming up on the ballot for your local community, you do yourself a disservice. That's the first thing. Find those things out, internalize it, and figure out how it's going to affect you and your family. Now, on the larger macro site, of course, things are going to be like...

The concept of getting rid of the Department of Education, you know, that is some social fabric destruction. Okay. And so what's interesting is he was also the president during COVID times where we had to go inside. Okay. And we should have some lessons that we've learned from being inside. We learned how to teach our children. We learned how to talk to our children, probably for the first time in generations where we were back inside.

And guess what? He's forcing us back inside. That might not be what he initially thought would happen, but the reaction is to go inside, go in community, learn who your neighbors are. Listen, in New Orleans, you can knock on anybody's back door within recent and ask for some food. You'll get a good plate. But that sense of community and culture still exists here. The rest of the U S needs to start adapting that and adopting it.

just being open with people you see on the street. this is so micro and saying hi, giving a smile. Listen, my hair is, it changes according to the season, right? So I've got body ground hair today, which will be March 4th. But what's interesting about this hair is people will walk up to me, all colors. People will walk up to me and start talking about hair. And it usually flows over to some other conversation and I can talk about what's happening in the community.

Whatever you have within you, you're to have to open it up and let it shine because the darkness is trying to roll in and take over and everybody's light is going to have to come out. You can't hide it anymore. You can't shy away from it anymore. You know, lot of, I'm at the age where most of the folks in my family are way older. and guess what? The fearful thing is my time to ascend, to be in charge.

And you still want to be that kid. It's not my turn. but it is your turn. I hate to let you know it is your turn. You know, you're going to be responsible for what the meal should be. You're going to be responsible for where everybody should be. That's the same thing you're going have to do in your community. You're going to have to knock on your own neighbor's doors.

Keegan Goudiss (11:41)
Well, you are inspiring me on two fronts. One, I mean, can't grow hair as long, so it's a little bit shorter highlights, but I really want some Mardi Gras hair. That's a really great point. I am curious, Ash Wednesday, what color do you switch to?

Pamela L. Wood (11:59)
Oh, no, no, no, because I have all of the colors in it intentionally, gold, purple and green. It's a, I'm good. I'm good. I'm one of the few people who's been ready.

Keegan Goudiss (12:06)
So you keep going,

But like also you inspired me like, you know, around here, you know, it's very much an industry town in DC and like.

Yeah, I just know so many people who are who either lost their job already are about to lose their job. Or they or they are just in an awful environment. You know, I was talking to someone they work at. Secretary they work at the Department of State and like one of the political pointies walks around proudly with like.

Pamela L. Wood (12:25)
Mm-hmm.

Keegan Goudiss (12:43)
Maga like full on Maga attire just like they like walk around like it's a performance for them and are like prodding like you know metaphorically prodding everybody they come upon trying to get them to have like a reaction so that they can like be like well I don't know this person is like maybe not a good good fit at the the State Department. You know my neighbor works the Department of Education. I mean this is like constant like conversation here and you've inspired me like I feel like here.

you know, in the suburbs where I live outside of DC, like we need to be doing more to check up, check in on people because you know, everybody I'm talking to, they're not, they're not doing so well. And I, and I think that it's really awful because there's, there's just so many people here who are just good folks that, that do this for less money than they could make elsewhere because they believe in the cause. They believe in being a civil servant. There's certainly waste in government for sure.

Pamela L. Wood (13:33)
Thank

Keegan Goudiss (13:40)
But these these people are not it right the folks that they're targeting are not bad people. They're not like lazy government employees. They're trying to get rid of the people who actually do stuff from my perspective. And I'm curious like.

Pamela L. Wood (13:49)
Mm-hmm. I think you're absolutely right.

Keegan Goudiss (13:53)
I'm curious, what, you know, what are you, so like here I am. I'm frustrated and I, and I'm worried about people. Like, do you think I should like look into organizations that are already, already like trying to, to canvas the neighborhood and try to help people and like try to join forces with them? You know, where people like just literally like, I'm going to go after this call and, and, and, knock on some doors and be like, are you doing okay? Like, can we get you anything? Uh,

Like, you know, there's at least four people that live within a stone's throw of me that just lost their job, you know? And it's like, I'm worried about them.

Pamela L. Wood (14:32)
Yeah. So the whole concept of this chaos that he is creating leads to isolation, which is what he's doing with the country as a whole in the world by isolating us. Right. And so the opposite of isolation is absolute community. You are responsible for the people in your community, even if you don't know them today.

Make it your responsibility to get to know them. Because if you think worst case scenario, like these movies they have on Netflix, there's an apocalypse. When you come outside your door in the middle of apocalypse, you better know Ms. Jane across the street or so and so down the block. I know what he has. You should be asking, what are your skills? Can you grow vegetables? Are you able to fix a car? These, I know it's so rudimentary. These are things we have lost touch with.

With Step Up, it's about community. I should be able to say, I know Ms. Francis has a problem with the oil in her car. It gets to be that minute and that small because you represent the hope that you're hoping to see. we talked, you said something about hope core. There is such a thing as hope core and we need to institute that stuff right now. I mean, I know it's,

antithetical to what we're used to doing, you know, but I also believe that it's the matriarchy that has been absent for so long. The patriarchy wants you to be a solo artist. The patriarchy wants you to perform in a silo in isolation. And now is not the time for us as individuals to go into isolation because you begin to feed on

Keegan Goudiss (16:06)
Yeah.

Pamela L. Wood (16:19)
these, the words and the things that you let through and it's, the speech becomes too heady and you just want to lay down. I used to like, sometime last year I was like, I'm just going to take a nap. I've learned to Institute naps. Naps are the refresher. I recommend them. They're better than any pill. It's okay to lie down and take a nap because it's toxins that keep coming to us through social media.

Keegan Goudiss (16:28)
Hmm.

Pamela L. Wood (16:47)
The president is just the king of isolationism and chaos. It's okay to turn away. Even a child told him the other day, shut up. What's that? What is it, Elon? What would it Four or three, whatever he is, children can see straight through you. They literally can see you because they just left the place upstairs, right? They're the closest to God.

Keegan Goudiss (16:59)
Yeah.

Peace for ya.

Pamela L. Wood (17:13)
They just got here. So they're not fuzzed by visions of other people. They literally see you for who you are. And when that child said to him, shut up, you're not the president, came from a very honest place.

Keegan Goudiss (17:28)
Well, I was wondering if it did come from he's heard his dad tell him that before or other people, right? But no, I agree with you. And I also enjoyed that he picked his nose and wiped on the resolute desk, which I feel like is the most ultimate form of civil disobedience to put a booger on the price.

Pamela L. Wood (17:44)
It's the hero

we've been waiting for. We didn't know that.

Keegan Goudiss (17:50)
Yeah,

I guess our whole movement we're just going to pick our nose in front of the fascist. Do you do you see like? In the horizon.

Pamela L. Wood (17:56)
Basically.

Keegan Goudiss (18:03)
Like, from my perspective, and obviously I'm in the tank, right? Like, so I definitely have a biased perspective, both living near the beltway and having worked in politics for so long.

I see like inflation going up more again. I see like the tone suddenly shifting from. From like, well, I'm going to fix it on day one to now it's it's well, you know, good things come to those who wait, right? Like they're literally saying now like, well, there's going to be some suffering, but then it's worth all that freedom that we're going to have. Which I obviously I don't believe maybe there are people on his side. Certainly do believe that.

some of them are paid trolls, like, I'm curious. Do you see like folks in Louisiana questioning? Like you, you talk to some, like obviously you talk to folks in New Orleans, but you, talk to other parts in the state as well. Like, do you, do you think that there is some recognition seeping in that maybe they, uh, they bought a bought some snake oil.

Pamela L. Wood (19:00)
absolutely, absolutely. But you're not going to hear it in the way that your soul would enjoy it. You know, the mea culpa is not going to come in the way that you would have hoped. But it's coming. And slowly but surely they're recognizing that, okay, I voted for something that I wasn't expecting to lose my farm on, literally. You know, so a lot of us, and I'm saying Black people,

will say you're gonna have to, white folks are gonna have to solve this issue because they in fact created it. You're gonna have to figure it out. You know, there's a movie I used to watch and a young girl goes to see her grandmother and she doesn't know that there's a song the grandmother loves to play. And the girl always forgets the words and the grandmother says, duck on it, booga booga, just figure it out. You literally gonna have to figure it out.

It's, it, there is no other thing for me to say that you're going to have to talk to the relatives who you don't talk to anymore. The ones who voted for Trump, the ones who put us in this position. And I honestly believe, this is me talking, not necessarily for step up, that the constitution is in duress, absolute duress. And she may be on her last legs, at least all of the amendments, because the amendments are not a part of the constitution.

Keegan Goudiss (20:11)
Yeah.

Pamela L. Wood (20:16)
They don't have to be there if you really think of that. So if you strip the amendments, which is what it looks like he's trying to do, that means all of us revert back to what the original writers of the constitution knew and thought should be. So I become three fifths of a person, right? And so what does that mean? Actually, it's the existence of being a three fifths of a person isn't too far removed from what we exist in today. As a black person,

There some things I know that I have to do in order to at least achieve what I have achieved. You know, it's part of the reason why I am now in a small civil rights organization. It's because everything I learned in my 27 years in corporate philanthropy was right beside white guys. I learned everything from white guys in terms of philanthropy and fundraising. And let me tell you, y'all know how to raise the money. That's what I learned. I raised a quarter of a billion dollars in my career in those three decades.

But I had to say to myself, what's my legacy going to be? So literally I'm here giving it away because this organization could not afford what I would be doing normally in my larger white corporate world life. And so at some point you have to say, okay, you got to give it away. So what I say to everybody is if you have the information, if you have the knowledge, the wherewithal, give that shit away. Excuse my language. Give it away. It will serve the greater good.

getting people to understand about the greater good is what this is the moment we're in it right now. If you don't wake up to this is what the greater good is about. We're all going to suffer and it's part of it. Is it so bad if it's destroyed because the constitution never included me. It never included me. So am I sad about the constitution that needs to be reconstituted?

I'm sad about the fabric that's being pulled from under everyone's legs. I'm sad about that, but I'm also okay with rewriting that. It's okay. Let's rewrite it so that everybody is in it. You know? And I think we're coming to that time. I don't think the economy will survive what Trump is going to do. You know, I think this whole crypto versus dollar may crash it, but guess what? That's where you have to learn how to barter.

Remember I said, when you go see your neighbor, you have to learn how to barter. You're to have to learn how to exchange those things, goods for works. I know I'm talking about like, it's the Aquarian me, talking about this big, big thing. But what's really little is next door and across the street and how I, my one little person can perform towards the greater good. I mean, that's what Step Up is trying to communicate.

to those in the neighborhoods that are downtrodden. know, knocking on those doors and saying, can you come out to a meeting? Can you come out and just advocate for someone else who may be in need? It's so tiny, yet it's so big because we hide behind these little machines now. You know, we're all keyboard protagonists and antagonists. We play both ends. But in building this hope core that you talk about,

It literally means I got to talk to Keegan today. When they pop in your mind, let me talk to him. What's going on? We're all going underground. Literally. We're all going underground and we're vocalizing when the time is right.

Keegan Goudiss (23:39)
Yeah, no, I mean that is why. No, I mean you said incredible amount amazing things I have like so many follow up questions on the first one I want to share. I had a proud father moment during the Super Bowl halftime show where one of my my kids asked asked why Kendrick Lamar said 40 acres and a mule and I got to like play history teacher in my living room because I like just frankly like a lot of people don't know that.

Pamela L. Wood (23:39)
I know I said that.

Keegan Goudiss (24:06)
And that's like makes me very sad and all these people who are like. You know we have to get rid of CRT and we can't like tell to talk about like all the awful things that we need made indigenous people do. You know when we took over their land right like there's there there you know it's. The world is not always black and white, but I do feel like there is a there. There are two polls that we operate on of we should acknowledge the awful things that we've done in the past.

Pamela L. Wood (24:07)
Thank

Thank

you.

Keegan Goudiss (24:36)
you

know, like as colonizers, as white as white folks as as Americans generally, like there's just awful things that we've done and that we should acknowledge for. We don't doesn't make me like I don't feel like I'm a bad person because my ancestors did bad, bad things, but I should acknowledge it and and try to strive for something better, especially when like we promise folks that are three fifths to your point that they're going to get land.

Pamela L. Wood (24:39)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Keegan Goudiss (25:05)
as a result. And then and then we go back and we say like, Nope, nevermind. And now we're gonna pay the the white folks that like we took the land from originally for their inconvenience after all this. And you know, there people just don't want that to be taught. And I, know, so was really excited. And thank you for bringing that up because it's reminded me of Kendrick Lamar's performance.

Pamela L. Wood (25:16)
So.

Think about this. The Super Bowl was the blackest thing in the blackest city. The performance was the blackest we'll ever see. The timing is extremely interesting. And I don't know if they knew that he was going to play them in that way. But to your point to tell your child, think about, here's a good question. Think about why are they so interested in my erasure?

What does my erasure mean? What does Native American erasure mean so much to those who want to do it? Why? Because I can run circles around anything that you put me up against. How is that possible? I was explaining to a young lady the other day, I said, you know what, the transatlantic trip.

I'm to call it the trip, the transatlantic trip here from Africa. Okay, started off in Africa and those who were captured by other Africans and shipped, you know, to America. The passage itself is so demanding, so difficult. There are those who jumped over, committed suicide. There are those who made it to the Caribbean stops. There are those who made it to America. There are those who survived beatings.

The atrocities go on and on and on and towns are burned down like Tulsa and we start all over again. We start all over again. And I said to the young lady, said, across from it, I said, I want you to think about that. Your DNA is the survivor DNA. It is the DNA that has brought you this far. Do you know how many people, how strong you actually are if you are still sitting here as a black person? Do you know how much shit you've been through? Your DNA is coded for survival.

Literally coded. There are changes that happen throughout, you know, hundreds of years. said, when I look at you, I need you to understand this, that you were not meant to live, you know, wither and die. You literally are the product of all of those people who made a decision at some point, I will survive. And so we come with that. We may not intrinsically think of it that way.

But we come with that. And so when I see all these people also complaining, well, why are black people out there marching? Why are they, baby, we did the work. And you know what? If you want me to throw the first rock, it's not gonna happen because you are used to black bodies dying. We're not doing that anymore. You're used to me being on the front line. You're used to me sacrificing. The sacrifice has been paid. The bill has been paid. We're good.

But I tell you when the time comes for us to say, how do you, for you all to say, how do you do it? Look at us. We're sitting in community and I think it's shocking that we, they're always looking for a leader for us. Don't worry about us. We are busy doing the work inside for ourselves. And I'm hoping we're hoping against hope that you all will do the work for yourselves for the rest. It's time for you to take up the mantle for the rest of us.

So when you tell your child about 40 acres and a mule, you gotta also talk about all of the lies that we've been fed and we're still here, still doing the damn thing. We need do it in community now, right? I'm sorry. On and on.

Keegan Goudiss (28:48)
is extremely profound. Yeah, I am curious. don't want to make light of your remarks, but there was one thing that you said earlier that I want to go back to because I'm just curious. And also, you touched on something that I've thought about for a long time because I've worked with other

Non white folks in like the political agency space and and you know they've been like well you don't understand like how much of the sales stuff that you do is like white culture and like how we have to like code switch and it like a really interesting conversation right about like becoming more white so that you can sell. When you touched on the stuff that you you you learn from like white folks in development do they ever make you watch Glen Gary Glen Ross do know that movie?

Pamela L. Wood (29:21)
done.

Yeah.

seen the play. I'm old enough to have been at the Broadway, yes, I have seen Glick It or The Real Estate.

Keegan Goudiss (29:40)
So yeah, obviously the play is even better than the movie, but there's a classic scene where coffee is for closers. And I think about that a lot. like, white culture driving like performance, right? I think one of the challenges, I'm just gonna speak for myself, when thinking about like needing to go inside and think about community is,

Pamela L. Wood (29:48)
yeah, it was good.

Keegan Goudiss (30:06)
is like I've been taught my entire life to like, have to go, I have to perform like progress, right? Like it was often at the expense of many other people, right? Whether it was taking advantage of a customer or a donor or just like whatever you can do to get the sale done, move things forward and always go, go, go. Never question yourself. I, you know, that's one of the things I've been like wrestling with is,

Pamela L. Wood (30:10)
If.

Keegan Goudiss (30:35)
trying to combat that culture so that we could hopefully create a future where it's there's space for everybody and all of their differences and we can prosper together is what I'm trying to say. And I don't really have a great way of saying it, frankly, because now I feel like I'm just floundering in my question. But I'm curious, what what do you like? Like, think it's a very valid point that like white folks have to figure it out.

Pamela L. Wood (30:50)
Yeah.

Keegan Goudiss (31:02)
But do you think that there are lessons that we can take from while we're trying to figure it out, like from other cultures? is it like literally just a conversation that we need to have with white folks that are ready to admit that like we fucked up and this is really bad and we need to fix things and like, all right, you all figure it out and come back to us when you have a plan and then we'll talk? Or do think there's some lessons we can learn from other cultures?

Pamela L. Wood (31:16)
Good night.

Absolutely. Other cultures, if I touch on it, are matriarchal, not so much patriarchal, which is more of a white centered thing. And I think there are lots of notes to be taken from that when you begin to center the very being that you come from, you know. Softness is shunned, you know, in that patriarchal world. When I say I've worked with the white

White boys are interesting. And I actually believe that white men and black women are kind of the same in terms of where they are in their community, meaning we're going to get it done. The probably only difference is that we may have, we show maybe a little bit more humanity, but I'm telling you, everyone that I have ever worked with who helped move me ahead was a white man, a white male on occasion.

it was another black woman if she had the power. And so I've taken my lessons from white males in this particular industry, but I was told that using my humanity was detrimental. Because I used to work lots of capital campaigns. I was at a church and the pastor got in front of his parish board and said, have a problem with the new folks that are moving in. It was a white parish mostly.

was a group of Africans who had just come to America and they were Catholic, obviously because they had met missionaries and whatever. They came to this parish and they were complaining. And the white parishioners were complaining. And I didn't understand this. I had just gotten there. I was just supposed to do the Catholic campaign. I was supposed to be in and out as the white fellas tell me. In and out, get the money, get the million, be gone. And so with my first meeting,

Keegan Goudiss (33:09)
Hehe.

Pamela L. Wood (33:11)
Priest was upset. He said, look, we have a problem in the parish. I didn't know he was going to say this. And this is how well I blended in. I learned that he said, the new parishioners, it's the music. What's wrong with the music? Turns out the African parishioners wanted more drums. They wanted more drums and they wanted to change the liturgical music. And this had the white parishioners on edge. Just, and I thought, what?

And I actually sat there and I said, you tanked my entire campaign. You just tanked my entire, you know, cause I was about, I gotta get the money. gotta get the money. so I told my boss, the pastor just screwed up my campaign. I need to Pamela, you got to get rid of that liberal part of yourself. That's none of our business. Whether those black people were, and I just looked, it was a white guy. And just looked at him like, are you kidding? And I was pulled off the campaign the next day, but the archbishop.

was told about what happened in that conversation. And I was put on another, I was put on another white pairs campaign. So I say this, that learning how to subdue your humanity, I found to be a very white thing. It just didn't make sense to me, you know? And so in doing those years, I grew very tired. I survived it because I knew how to pivot.

And for many years, I was the only black woman. I was the only black woman in this large consulting firm of philanthropy, you know? And we know how to hustle, just like the white boy knows how to hustle. But the difference is we kind of are a little bit more subtle with it. We don't necessarily want to kill you. We just want to get to the goal and we want to go home. That's the mantra of most black people. I just want to go home. I'm here to get paid and I just want to go home.

When I say to you the lesson is learn how to be more human with others. It's, it's not going to trust me. It's this whole thing of scarcity. If you have a scarcity mindset that I give it away, I'm going to be impoverished. We're all, we're all about to be impoverished. Okay. Trust me. It's not the worst thing that will happen to you. It will get worse before it gets better, but you're going to have to be nice.

to people. I know it's hard. Be nice. I know these are so simple and it goes against capitalism. But the reality is, is I've made more money being nice to people than I have being stringent and difficult and hard with people. One of the greatest lessons I've ever learned is, know what, just keep your hands like this. Don't keep them like this. Nothing comes to you like this. It all comes to you when it's like this.

Keegan Goudiss (35:47)
That's a really great point. curious. You know, I have a sense of like what some of your predictions will be, I'm curious. I am very curious, like both locally and nationally and globally, like what do you see happening over the next few months? Any big predictions you wanna make right now or just general trends that you're seeing?

Pamela L. Wood (36:06)
General trends, inflation is gonna be crazy. We're gonna have to really invest in our food banks because most of, a good percentage of us are already at the poverty level or seeping into it. And we're gonna have to create that structure ourselves. And food banks, I hope people are volunteering, food co-ops, I hope people are joining them. I hope people are looking at small businesses, mom and pop shops. This is their time to shine.

I think the oligarchy is going to just, the boot is going to get bigger on our necks. I think legislatively in this red state, we are going to be crushed. But I also believe that their folly is that they don't understand humanity and wanting to survive. I think their folly will be that they want too much and it will top.

That's my thought process. There's only so much you can grab off the table before you end up eating yourself. someone that was, the lepros, I never thought the lepros would eat my face. It's happening. It's going to continue. And then you're going to have a dawning and an awakening. I should join the other side. Come on. Come on. I'm not going to hold you back because I know you need me. You're going to need me.

Keegan Goudiss (37:25)
Yeah. No, that's great. I well, I agree with you and and I mean, if only we come up to it with an alternative to capitalism or on this call, maybe that would be something we can start a campaign for. But it is, yeah, all points well taken. I also you mentioned this before on like, I'm not going inside too much and like you and I talked about Tick Tock a little bit.

Pamela L. Wood (37:50)
Yeah.

Keegan Goudiss (37:51)
before in the past and you're like to me like social media is ironically not very social. I will say the tick tock is one of the few that that I've seen people build communities from. Yeah, and I wonder like do you do you see that? Now that sort of tick tock is back, but maybe not really. I'm not sure. I don't know. Maybe Elon Musk is going to eventually own it or or Mark Zuckerberg or something. If you it feels like.

Pamela L. Wood (38:03)
Yes. Yes.

Keegan Goudiss (38:18)
the boot will come down on TikTok again, right, for my advantage, like, outside of like door knocking, do you think that there's any sort of role media can play, right, in trying to build community that's gonna be needed as things get worse?

Pamela L. Wood (38:21)
yeah.

Absolutely. I think TikTok will be good until it's not good anymore. It is compromised. It is not the same. And that's okay. We're still doing our thing despite, you know, being shadowed and, you know, whatever they've done to the algorithm. God bless. Listen, you can go over to Shaung Shu and make new friends across the world.

which is something they did not expect to happen. And this is what I'm talking about. You can't trust humanity because we will zig when you thought we were going to zag. And it's like,

Keegan Goudiss (39:00)
Yeah.

Are

you using the little red book? Are you over there exploring?

Pamela L. Wood (39:12)
thousand followers. Yes, I'm over there. I'm over there. Listen, here's how you stay young. Keep going. Keep going backwards and learning the fastest things. Be an early adapter. Don't be afraid. say, learn it all. Learn it all. just, I mean, I just had my birthday on Tuesday. It's my 60th birthday. And so I'm surprised that I'm 60. I'm, listen,

Keegan Goudiss (39:14)
Wow.

Pamela L. Wood (39:34)
People are surprised that I'm 60, but what I do know is I have an ability to leap in between generations because I'm curious. Stay curious. They can't kill you if they don't know what you're thinking. Okay. They can't kill you unless they know what you're thinking. Surprise them. And that's exactly what they did with Shaohongshu. Listen to me, I'm speaking Chinese. Why should I, why am I speaking Mandarin?

Keegan Goudiss (40:03)
Hahaha

Did you use any of the apps to like auto dub yourself? Like have you put out like content where you're exclusively speaking Mandarin?

Pamela L. Wood (40:12)
No, I haven't done that, but I do watch a lot. I am a polyglot. I do Spanish, French from high school. You I had honors Spanish and French in high school, and I retained a lot of the Spanish. And so to me, switching over to Chinese to Mandarin was like, OK, it was fun to me. And I think just they're welcoming. They're so different from us. They're so nice.

Here we go again with the humanity and being nice to people. They were like, sure, come on in. We were like, what? It's okay. know, because we are told stay in your place. If it is not yours, don't touch it. You know, they're just like, come on in, just be kind. And we're like, we're learning how to be kind.

Keegan Goudiss (40:46)
Yeah.

Yeah, I remember seeing when that was happening. There were quite a few videos of like, okay, Americans welcome, but like, like stop, don't be assholes about this. And here's how you can prosper in our, in our community. We're welcoming you in, but also don't do the stuff that we don't like mainly like, don't be like an asshole.

Pamela L. Wood (41:15)
Yes, no, she's out.

Right. We completely policed ourselves as well. We were like, hey, hey, that's no, no, no, you don't do that joke here. Yeah. It's like, we do have manners.

Keegan Goudiss (41:29)
Yeah, well, I just found it amusing that like it was like a lot of the stereotypes that they were bringing up about our culture was like pretty spot on. I'm like, wow, you have like a pretty good insight. Like I know some of its propaganda that you probably hear about us, but like, you're actually pretty accurate around some of the things you're concerned about Americans coming into your community and saying or doing. And yeah, yeah. No, was I was I thought it was remarkable and

It gave me hope for the future when that happened. I also agree that something's changed, so it's not the same anymore on TikTok at least. So I'm curious to see what will happen as that. have you seen all the videos on like, well, if you block the Facebook account and block like other accounts, your algorithm will be better miraculously again. you experimented with that at all?

Pamela L. Wood (42:03)
Yeah.

you

absolutely did it. I blocked Instagram, Facebook, and Meta. You have to block Meta in order for it to It definitely improved my algorithm because I began seeing people I hadn't seen in a minute. I was like, okay, got it. But as I said, it's compromised and who knows how long this will last and something else will come up, I'm sure, to take its place.

Keegan Goudiss (42:30)
And did it change? Did it change anything for you?

Pamela L. Wood (42:48)
We can build community literally anywhere as we have learned through TikTok. And we just need to replicate it in the streets as well.

Keegan Goudiss (42:52)
Yeah.

Well, what are my dreams for the forecast and why I was so excited that you agreed to do this one? Cause you just have such an amazing view on the world and what needs to happen. You know, like I don't have the resources to do it, so we'll see what happens, but like I'm a big believer that we need to go back to print as a way to build community. like obviously digital is always going to play a role in everything we do and I'm.

I wouldn't want to pretend like we have to ignore all of the, the, tools that that are at our disposal. But I, my hope is that like we can create, we can replicate in print like niche media in the way that Tik TOK has to really build community and, actually get more folks together because that's the one thing I'm hearing when I talked to people, at least on the left, it's like we sort of forgot.

Pamela L. Wood (43:28)
Thank

Keegan Goudiss (43:44)
what why it was so important to get people together and talk in person. Like we became like very online creatures and great like a lot of entertainment online. But we almost became too online on the left while like the right like Trump's rallies. Obviously there are a lot of things I disagree with being said there but they really do build community at his rallies and and like there's a lot of fun and in person connections that you just don't get from

Pamela L. Wood (43:48)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Yeah.

No.

Keegan Goudiss (44:12)
from digital media. you my hope is with the forecast and when people like listening and will be inspired by you is that like we can create something together that really allows for people to connect. Because I do think that's missing and I don't see Mark Zuckerberg creating something that will help us there.

Pamela L. Wood (44:25)
Yeah.

No, because if you don't put it in a book, you can hide it. You can literally hide. Social media, it's what? Remember when we used to call it the information super highway?

Keegan Goudiss (44:44)
Yes, I do

remember that.

Pamela L. Wood (44:45)
getting on the information superhighway and now it's literally.

Keegan Goudiss (44:48)
Before that, did you

ever did you ever dabble with BBS is Bolton boards with like way back when before like a well and everything?

Pamela L. Wood (44:53)
No.

No, I didn't. Uh-uh.

Keegan Goudiss (44:57)
There was a whole there was a whole area where you could just like you connect with your dialed modem to like some local network where people would would exchange information there. Yeah.

Pamela L. Wood (45:05)
Really?

wow, no, I mean I have had AOMA.

Keegan Goudiss (45:09)
Anyway, I interrupted

your point. I apologize. Please, please continue. You were going to make a point.

Pamela L. Wood (45:13)
no, I was just thinking about

how we are socialized now. So you have these teens now who have anxiety anytime they have to be in a crowd or with people. And we've done them a disservice by not saying, here's a book. I remember my goddaughter was starting at a STEM school and I had given her a list of books. One was Catch Her in the Rye.

So, cause I believe in the, in the classics. My Aijlu, I know what Kate's verse needs. so I'd given her a stack, but I had given her a first book, Catcher in the Rye. She was in sixth grade or seventh, something obscenely young, right? And I didn't know she was taking it to school with her every day until I went to the parent teacher conference to cover for her mom. And the teacher said to me, can you explain to me why Tania is carrying Catcher in the Rye? Isn't that a very, you know,

Keegan Goudiss (46:04)
Wow.

Pamela L. Wood (46:05)
And I said, it's

Keegan Goudiss (46:05)
Huh.

Pamela L. Wood (46:06)
a white teacher. And I said, she's going to read what we give her. Well, I just don't understand. You don't have to understand. Her education is paramount for us, but isn't a little bit. Yes, it's advanced. It's supposed to be advanced. Don't question why a child is reading Catching the Red. You want to give her, you know, the Care Bears book. Stop it. Stop it. So,

Keegan Goudiss (46:29)
Hahaha

Pamela L. Wood (46:32)
I just want, I'm thinking a white teacher thinking that black students, sixth grader, you know, should not have this in her possession. And she was reading it at lunch. That's what kind of surprised the teacher, but she knows, you know, to me it's got a heavy handed aunt who's like, did you read XYZ chapter? When she comes home, you know, home was harder than, than school. And so I was like, it's every step.

of your life as a black person. Every step, every inch is monitored, questioned. It just becomes a part of your language and your DNA. When you say we code switch, it's because we have to, because we want to survive. It's in community that I can lay back, kick back and talk the way I want to talk. What I'm talking with you is somewhere in between white speak,

And if you, you know, I'm bridging intentionally because at some point y'all gonna have to come over here. You just go, you just gonna have to walk it on over here because you gotta get real. You can't be like this. You're gonna have to get real, you know?

Keegan Goudiss (47:36)
Yeah.

I know you're not necessarily inviting me to New Orleans, but I would love to move New Orleans and join your community because I love that city.

Pamela L. Wood (47:55)
We

can do sampling. We love to have.

Keegan Goudiss (47:58)
Yeah, you know one day I hope. Certainly a dream. Well, I you know happy belated birthday. I was one I did not realize it was such a big milestones. Amazing. You know that. As a fellow Aquarian, I I already know that you're an amazing person, but it's just like been great to hear your thoughts and and advice and I hope that like our listeners.

Pamela L. Wood (48:05)
Thank you.

Yes, thank you.

Yeah.

Keegan Goudiss (48:24)
enjoy it as much as I have. And we'll have to do it again, frankly.

Pamela L. Wood (48:29)
Yes,

yes, let's do it again and again and again until they hear us, until they absorb it and it becomes part of their DNA, you know?

Keegan Goudiss (48:35)
Yes.

That's that's a great way to put this. So let's let's check in again and we'll see if we're making any progress later this year. Thanks Pamela, I appreciate you.

Pamela L. Wood (48:43)
Okay, Keegan.

Thank you. Much love.