The Forecast

Keegan Goudiss (00:19)
Welcome back to the forecast. Today's guest is someone I've known ⁓ since the electric and deeply formative days of the Bernie 2016 campaign, where she was not only a powerhouse surrogate, but a sharp, fearless voice for progressive values on national TV. If you turned on CNN, CBS, Fox, or maybe even TYT back then, chances are you saw No Mi Ki const holding her own and more often than not, changing the frame.

Nomi, welcome to the forecast.

Nomiki Konst (00:49)
Wow.

Thank you and congrats on the forecast. Love it. If your listeners have not read the first magazine, I am one page from finishing it. But so far, 98 % in. I'm like, I'm hooked. And I subscribed to lot of magazines that I don't read. So the fact that I like read this magazine fully means you've got something special. So congrats.

Keegan Goudiss (01:12)
I appreciate that. That means a lot coming from you, and especially anybody else out there who's listening to this and doesn't usually read the magazines I do. That is the feedback I love to hear most. I don't usually read magazines, but I read yours. That makes me feel good. Thank you. ⁓

Nomiki Konst (01:27)
also gave

me dopamine hit. Sorry, I know this is kind of like your goal with the forecast, but I was on the subway and I was transported back to like when I first moved to New York before everything was on our phones or we were as addicted. And it just felt really good. I felt like a human.

Keegan Goudiss (01:30)
Yes.

That memory is what I'm trying to go for. that actually is deeply touching. So thank you. is, having worked in digital politics for so long, I have come to the realization that I have contributed a lot to the poisoning of America and our addiction. ⁓ And I profited from it, right? My hands are not clean. And so I can't change the past, but what I can do is try to help people remember and we can build a better future, right? Today though, I want to talk about truth and power.

Nomiki Konst (01:58)
Congratulations.

You're like.

Keegan Goudiss (02:13)
that's okay. We can talk about the magazine too if you'd like, but

Nomiki Konst (02:16)
Well, I was

just gonna say, you're like Craig Newmark. You just ruined journalism and then you decided to just fund all the programs to reignite journalism.

Keegan Goudiss (02:25)
I'm like Craig, but with less money. ⁓ I want to talk about. I want to start with DNC. Yeah, we we've talked a lot about DNC over the years. You've seen. A lot up close and very personal many changes. Can you share with our listeners what's what's something the public still doesn't fully grasp about how the party structures maintain power?

Nomiki Konst (02:27)
Yeah.

Ooh, this is such a great question and very wonky. So I'm going to warn everybody. Go for wonk. I'll try to make it as fun as possible. ⁓ Okay. So democratic party should be democratic, right? We should have, it's a private corporation. ⁓ It is not funded by the state. Like many other countries have funding that comes from the state. So it is a private corporation. So let's just start from the premise that they can do whatever the hell they want. ⁓ But they do like to.

Keegan Goudiss (02:55)
We're starting off wonky, thank you.

Nomiki Konst (03:20)
Structured themselves and they should structure themselves as a lowercase D Democratic Party there are members from all over the country who run for their seats and they are Encompassed within a state party their 50 state parties plus ⁓ territories and ⁓ Democrats abroad and so that is different. I know it gets confusing. It's different from the DNC

Keegan Goudiss (03:45)
you

Nomiki Konst (03:45)
convention where people run as delegates. Sometimes there's overlap, but there's a lot more delegates than there are members. so this, yeah. So people always are like, like I was a delegate and I'm like, no delegates are different, but okay. So here we are. Now we have some problem states, some states that, you know, each state has their own set of rules. So you've got like the macro DNC at the national level, and then you have state parties, which have their own rules. And sometimes those rules overlap with state laws. So

Keegan Goudiss (03:51)
That's really the DNCC, right?

Nomiki Konst (04:15)
know, the DNC has no control over, for instance, how a primary presidential primary or presidential caucus is structured. That is state law. So like, if your state is controlled by Republicans, your state primary structure is going to be influenced by Republicans, which is why it's really important for Democrats to operate in every single state. Okay, aside from the DNC, you have the DCCC at the national level and the DSCC.

The DCCC is for the Congressional Campaign Committee. I know you know this very well. And the DSCC is for the Senate. I say this again because a lot of times people point at the DNC and blame congressional losses on the DNC when the DNC has mostly nothing to do with that. That's usually the DCCC, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. Okay, so now that we've gotten that out of way, the DNC is a living, breathing organization, or it should be.

in which members meet regularly in their states and then they meet several times a year, especially if they're on a certain committee around the country, they'll pick different locations where they can all meet together. Those are the elected members. Now, the chair of the party

When it is not a sitting president, usually gets elected. I will give credit to Joe Biden in which he could have just picked his chair, because that's traditionally been the case, but they had an election and it was Jamie Harrison who won that election. ⁓ You know, you can have your critiques of Jamie Harrison, but he did win that election. And Joe Biden did say, you know, I'm not going to point a chair like Barack Obama did or previous Democratic presidents had. ⁓

Keegan Goudiss (05:30)
Yeah.

Nomiki Konst (05:56)
The chair has committees in which he has in the past been able to appoint members to. Now this is where it gets really wonky and gross and where I get like my blood boils and I get angry.

while there is all this democracy in the DNC. And there are all these members who raise their own money to become Democratic members, and they love their communities, and, you know, they can be more conservative or progressive, but, you know, at least there's pure democracy there. There are committees like the Executive Committee and the Rules Committee in particular, who basically have full oversight over

like anything voted on by the DNC membership. So say the DNC membership says that they want to have the thing that's relevant today is the DNC should be neutral. Say the members overwhelmingly vote in favor of DNC neutrality. There are a series of appointed members. like not as many as there used to be, but there could be like at large because of gender dynamics and former dignitaries like presidents and know, secretaries of state or whatever.

So those people do not run for their seats, they're appointed. And then there are people on the rules committee who have traditionally been mostly appointed. Sometimes they appoint members that have run the chair, or sometimes they just appoint random people like consultants. So my critique is that the rules committee can basically say, that's so great. I'm glad that you guys voted in favor of the DNC being neutral, but we're going to override that, which basically kills all democracy. If you know anything about

fiscal control boards, like there's been fiscal control boards in cities like Detroit or in Puerto Rico or in Buffalo or, you know, in New York years ago. That is where like some appointed board that has not been elected negates democracy. And so when I get critical to DNC, it's really about these mechanisms in which they can prevent democracy from happening. Because I think fundamentally at the end of the day, the DNC members are

they're representing their communities and they want to see a thriving DNC. And it's very much not about progress. I mean, progressives versus conservatives. It's about, is my community being funded? Are we able to run elections in, you know, in our locality? You know, are people in Iowa, ⁓ the Democratic Party in Iowa functional? ⁓ Is the Democratic Party in Arizona or Texas functional? And I think we've made a lot of mistakes in the last

18 or so years, but especially under Obama, where he pulled the money away from the DNC. He focused into OFA, Organizing for America, which was an offshoot of his presidential race in 2008. He put his people in charge of the DNC and then stripped funding from the states. And as a result, we lost, when I was the first person to say this out loud, because I counted it, over a thousand seats during the Obama years. We've come back quite a bit.

And that's where I think Ken Martin, the reason why it's such a big deal that Ken Martin's in office, he's the chair, is because he has been consistently, as the former head of the state party chairs association, ⁓ he has been consistently advocating to put that money back into state parties. And he's already started that process, which makes him very dangerous ⁓ because, you know, maybe I buried the lead here, but the appointed members on the rules committee

usually have conflicts of interest. They're usually involved with a consulting class and the consulting class has been running the Democratic Party as its slush fund, frankly, for the last 15 to 20 years.

Keegan Goudiss (09:26)
Yeah, I want to zoom in on that a little bit because obviously as a former political consultant, currently former, I'll say, I'll say, you know, there's a chance I'll jump back in at some point this cycle. right now I'm focused on media and trainings. Not as much political consultant rate.

So there's all this stuff this week. The reason I ask is all the stuff this week because it would David Hogg and I think a lot of people don't really understand the full story. I don't understand the full story. What I've latched on to is that there are folks in the DNC unhappy with him saying people should be primaried. And I like I never quite understand how everybody in the Democratic Party hates primary so much because one, if we were like completely driven by consultants, we all make more money, right? With more primaries.

And two, if we really believe in democracy, ⁓ actually primaries are really healthy as part of that. And three, we keep trying to fix primaries and it does not work ever or almost ever. Maybe there's been a couple of times, but so I want to take it on that too. know, is that is David Hogg really like the savior for trying to keep primaries and get rid of like all the old Democrats who are out of touch or what's really going on here?

Nomiki Konst (10:36)
Please no, this is a complete charade, charade, charade. I'll re-say it. It's a charade, Keegan, okay? This is David Hogg, child. No, I'm kidding. No, I mean, listen, David, I think in the beginning I thought, okay, maybe he wasn't aware of.

Keegan Goudiss (10:41)
Sherrod, yes. He is a Sherrod.

you

Nomiki Konst (10:59)
what he was doing and then maybe after a few conversations, and respectful conversations, things would shift because I felt he was acting in good faith in the beginning. I will very clearly say I don't think he's acting in good faith right now. And put that down on paper if you want and I'm happy to explain it. Also, we're off with the fact that I was on the Under Your Form Commission.

Keegan Goudiss (11:21)
writing it down.

Nomiki Konst (11:25)
I was appointed by Bernie Sanders to reform the Democratic party along with seven other Bernie people. And we went to war, war for two years with some of the darkest, most evil people I've ever met in my life. Weapons, weapons dealing consultants. mean, just in person, like seemingly pleasant, but like knew how to work every single lever of the Democratic party.

and work every little like op game you can imagine. It was like watching this, I mean, I'm not trying to like compare it to this, but you you see all these like CIA handbooks and like how to infiltrate a movement. And like, even though was a committee and even though we were, you know, going around the country and interviewing folks, I think fundamentally there, our opposition on the Uniform Commission had a lot of tricks up their sleeve.

I think some of us fell for it, some of us didn't, but at the end of the day, you had to go with whatever, frankly, Bernie wanted to do. ⁓ I think on that commission, we paid way too much attention to superdelegates when we should have been focusing on the budget and ending conflicts of interest, because that would essentially end superdelegates' power, because most of those superdelegates had conflicts of interests. ⁓ And they were there to preserve the power of the financial interests that it wasn't about progress, it was about keeping

the pockets lined of a handful of consultants. And, you know, the budget is not transparent in the DNC. The budget has not been pre-approved by executive committee members. so, you know, billions of dollars being raised every single cycle would go out to these consultants who brought you the loss of Kamala Harris, who brought you, you know, I think, by the way, that race was very winnable. Everyone wants to point at Joe Biden. want to, whatever. I think it was winnable. think there was a moment where the campaign went from momentum to complete bland strategically, you know,

going off in lots of directions that I think you and I could talk about forever that were not productive. But ⁓ they hold the keys to the DNC. so Ken Martin, I'll get to David Hoggan in second, Ken Martin taking over was an existential threat. I think they really thought they could get him out, but there have been too many years of losses, too many conversations with DNC members. And I think what came out of the Uniform Commission

was an education for a lot of DNC members of what was really happening. And I think in good faith, you know, I think a lot of folks, you could probably poll them, would agree that Tom Perez was not really elected the DNC chair. There were some shenanigans that came about on that second ballot, because there was a first ballot against Keith Ellison, it was very close and it went to a second ballot. And then mysteriously a few people left the room, didn't vote. And mysteriously,

Keegan Goudiss (14:04)
Yeah. ⁓

Nomiki Konst (14:16)
⁓ Valerie Jarrett and Barack Obama started making phone calls to flip votes when no one was supposed to have access to the list of votes. So, you know, Tom Price was a big letdown for a lot of DNC members. And I think after that, you know, even Jamie Harrison was a bit of a letdown and folks just had it. And Ken knows he's, he's not bombastic. He, you know, he's, he walks softly and carries a big stick. He's not somebody who's going to, ⁓

Keegan Goudiss (14:25)
Surprise, surprise.

Nomiki Konst (14:45)
ruffle feathers publicly, but he is definitely going in there and shifting things around. And so why does that lead to David Hogg? I think in the beginning, a lot of us just thought maybe David Hogg was being a little naive, like, young, yes, we need to have primaries. Totally, of course. I don't think anybody in the, I don't think Ken Martin is opposed to primaries. I think he wants it to be neutral. The DNC should be neutral because the DNC meddled in every single election in the last 20 years. And

That's how we lose. wants to have a body that is there to support democracy, not put their thumb on the scale of democracy. And so David Hogg, while he is a newly elected vice chair, he's a representative of this institution in which we should be saying, like, yes, anybody should run. But we're not going to say you're better than that one.

Let's not lie. I got yesterday, I think, six emails from David Hogg fundraising emails for his organization. He does not talk about what kinds of candidates he wants to support. He makes it sound like this is some revolutionary concept of challenging Democrats. Like, I remember Justice Democrats.

Keegan Goudiss (15:54)
I was going to say,

it sort of reminds me of ⁓ brand new Congress. Remember that one?

Nomiki Konst (15:58)
Yes, brand new Congress.

Keegan Goudiss (16:00)
Which they raised a lot of money, I'm not sure where went to,

Nomiki Konst (16:02)
They merged with Justice Democrats eventually. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's how that went down. you know, I think that like once it's one thing to say, I want to be a vice chair, which is kind of ceremonial to be completely honest. But he's using that and it's right now becoming such a distraction. It's becoming such an internal dynamic and about David Hogg, you know, going on like

Bill Marshall to talk about DNC stuff, like, and frankly, not being honest. He's not being honest about what happened. there was a complaint filed against him and Malcolm Kenyatta, state rep from Pennsylvania. They're both vice chairs about the gender dynamics that, I mean, there are these rules, like there's in the DNC, like you have to have so many, there has to be a balance of gender equity, which is good, right? And there was a complaint filed and

That happened like right after the election about how that election went down. And there's a process, there's a procedure, which is great because these things didn't used to exist. And so Ted Martin being the chair that he is, is going through that procedure in a really honest way. And sure enough, there now has to be a vote because the gender rules were violated. I mean, in my opinion, and it doesn't mean that they don't have a chance at keeping those positions, but it just overlaps.

conveniently with this other thing that happened where he decided to launch his organization to challenge bad Democrats in his opinion. But again, who are those bad Democrats? Why are they bad? Who are the candidates you're running? He has not said any of these things. And simultaneously, he doesn't seem to be able to answer the question, which is, you're a vice chair of the DNC. You're not supposed to supposed to remain neutral. I saw him at the White House Correspondents Dinner.

weekend a few weeks ago and a few people pulled me into a conversation with him and were like, you should really talk to Nomi. She's like, cause at that point everyone thought David was just acting in good faith and was trying to be a good progressive. And they're like, well, this is the person. Like if you want to talk to anybody who gets it, talk to Nomi. And I was like, I'd be happy to talk to you privately. And like the DNC is an onion. Like just when you think you got it, like there's like five more layers. Like it is just this dark, dark entity.

And like, like it's a metaphor for like the abyss. It's just, you you never, you never know how bad it's going to get. And he was just so resistant to even the lightest conversation. And then he said to me, I have millions of young people at my back. And I said, well, David, I was on Bernie's 2016 campaign. That was actually millions of young people. And I'm sorry, but I don't know any young people are subscribing to your email list and watching Bill Maher.

Which is, you I do know more about his, you know, March for our Lives crew. The followers are upper middle-class ladies, like older ladies. So.

Keegan Goudiss (18:56)
⁓ How do you reply to that?

Yeah, you know, for sure. mean,

I mean, he's trying to be a martyr, it seems like, right? In this situation.

Nomiki Konst (19:10)
Yeah. mean, it's,

so in that, so after feeling the resistance and he's extremely resistant, said, go vet me, go Google me, do whatever you need to do. Talk to more people, three people here that you trust. but he was also being shown around by a consultant. Well, who I knew, and you probably know too, ⁓ at the correspondence dinner. And I just, I saw like, for those of us who've been on the inside, I saw the infrastructure around him and I'm just of the opinion now that he is, he's just, he's being used as a weapon to.

⁓ create distraction, create chaos and sabotage Ken Martin's reform goals. I think he's going to do, Ken's going to do what he wants. And at the end of the day, Ken's going to win because the DNC members see through it because they're just frustrated. Like this is just another trick in the hat of what folks do in the DNC. When I say it's this layered onion, like when I was on that commission, I mean, the tricks that they were using to sabotage our work.

It was like weaponizing. mean, there was a point where there was a rumor being spread that made it all the way to MSNBC where Jane Club, who's now the chair of the ASDC, which is the Association of State Party Chairs, which is what Ken had, and Jim Zogby, who had once been on the executive committee and he had been in the DNC for years and years, big reformer, and myself, and we were three of the members.

there was this rumor that spread that we wanted to eliminate primaries and replace them with caucuses because we had a white person's agenda that we to weaken the votes of people of color. Now, number one, let's just start off with the fact that I wasn't even on that committee and neither was Jim Zogby. We were on the budget committee or the party reform committee, which is about the budget. And so that's why they were coming after us. Cause we were like going for the budget. And

Also, it's state party, it's state law. Like we wouldn't have the ability if we wanted to. We weren't advocating for that. We weren't like nothing about that. It was just BS. But they were trying to, like we were getting a lot of headway with the budget conversation and they were just trying to smear us. other things that they would do is we go behind, actually the day of our vote, there was this, for those of you who are listening that are old enough to remember this,

I was caught on camera dropping an F-bomb on C-SPAN and that was the day of our vote. And it was like the first, ⁓ my God. And so just some backstories in that there were never any cameras like following this ever. And so I didn't even know C-SPAN was there. We were in a basement at a hotel and like this is another trick they would do. They would like cut our wifi. They wouldn't buy the wifi. So we had no, I mean, it was like, we couldn't text each other. It was just all sorts of dirt.

Keegan Goudiss (21:41)
That was a scandal back then.

Nomiki Konst (22:03)
dirty, tricks. ⁓ And we complained about it. And so this is the last meeting and ⁓ we had had this meeting behind closed doors, which by the way, also against rules of the DNC, any reporter can walk into any meeting, any meeting, because they're all supposed to be open. So we had this meeting during lunch with all of our colleagues to try to negotiate the final terms of the report that we were voting on. And there were a few things that we had agreed on.

And when we went out, not only were they not on the report that we were voting on that was being projected on the wall, but people were turning the votes. And so before I had my little F-bomb moment, there were two other people who had also gotten angry. And so was like the tension was building up. And then when I spoke, because this one of the things was something I wrote, I lost my shit and dropped an F-bomb and I was like so embarrassed.

And then I remember going to Larry Cohen, who was the vice chair of the commission. mean, I'm so sorry, I dropped enough bomb. He's like, it's okay. Like sometimes these things happen. And then we walk up after like hours and I have like thousands of times. mean, was like somebody had captured it and it went totally viral. And like Michael Moore pushed it out there. And it was this like moment where, you know, I like lambasted the DNC for, you know, basically flipping the vote. Like they lied. And so these are the kinds of tactics that they use.

And they think they can get away with it. And they do. I think in this, you know, David Hogg is, this is not David Hogg alone. This is like, you know, this is a masterclass in trying to make a young person a weapon against a very unpopular DNC, which is something we keep saying, like, approval ratings are low as they've ever been. It's like, no, actually they were low eight years ago. They're a little bit higher, believe it not. can't believe I'm saying that. They're still low. But like, that is because of Ken Martin. That is because of...

Keegan Goudiss (23:29)
Did you get away with that?

Nomiki Konst (23:56)
all the people beforehand and the consultants who are frankly loving what you're doing and attacking Ken Martin, the DNC.

Keegan Goudiss (23:57)
you

Well, like, so I would argue that the big D democratic corruption that that that you know, everything you're describing from 2016 to like now, you know, objectively, is part of a corruption issue that we've had in the big D democratic party for quite some time, sadly. And we also have the corruption on the progressive side.

Uh, as well, frankly, like not, not to shock any of our listeners, but there's a ton of folks on the left who are just in this to make money and deal. And, and it's like not, it's not just the centrist that are corrupt from my experience. Sadly, no, but you made a key point there. Sometimes maybe there, there are some of these folks are in there to, to gum up the works to, to begin with, but like, I feel like it makes it harder for us to get people to care about.

The Republican and Trump corruption that is blatantly happening like way out in the open so much so that they're like, it's not corrupt if we just tell everybody what we're doing out in the open. They're just sort of brazen now at this point. ⁓ I, so I use this like AI bot I built that helps like research for like, you know, questions. It was really interesting for you because I've known you for so long. And one of the things that pulled, I'm curious if this is accurate, it said, ⁓ one of the questions that suggested for you was

You've talked before about how political corruption isn't just cash in envelope, its access, its media, its culture. Do you actually say that or did it hallucinate on that? Because I was like, I don't remember her saying that somewhere, but it sounds like it pulled it from some somewhere. But let's just assume that you said that because I think it's a profound quote, right? Like it is. There's a culture of corruption everywhere. And and like what would how how do we handle that? How do we unmask corruption and make people care again about it?

Nomiki Konst (25:45)
Totally.

I don't know if I said it exactly that way, but I think it summarized probably like my whole career. Honestly, like I could, sometimes I forget, you know, I have a lot of stuff on camera and so sometimes I just found this old hard drive from, you know, 10 years ago or so and I like watch stuff and I'm like, I said that? What? Wow. Or like I said something that I would totally say today.

Keegan Goudiss (25:56)
Yeah that might be it.

No-Me's like theme in life, right?

Nomiki Konst (26:20)
verbatim and I was thinking it back when I was like 25 years old. ⁓ it's always amazing when you, when you go back and like read stuff that you wrote a long time ago or watch things. Yeah. I think, I think part of what you're doing is how you, we, as individuals, it's like, we have to start acting locally a little bit more, ⁓ in this digital world because so much of what, me, is being controlled, you know, more than anybody is by

So much of our culture, so much of our critical thinking and so much of our behaviors and how we react to situations like the David Hogg situation, for instance, is part of this design by the tech oligarchs who've been working on this for years and years, a social experiment. I think part of the reason why David Hogg, his story is getting out there in a certain way and people are reacting is because

the internet doesn't like create a space for nuance. And it's not sexy to talk about, you know, how the DNC rules work and

I did that for years, but I was also on the side of being critical of the DNC. So was really popular when I said these things. But now like the progressives are in charge of the DNC and for like a month and it's like, you know, David Hogg is like wrecking Ken Martin or this woman, Lindy Lee. I listened to her interview the other day and she's blaming Ken Martin. She's like, I met with Ken Martin and I was telling him Joe Biden was too old and he didn't listen to me. was like, lady, Ken Martin wasn't even in charge of the DNC.

you know, Joe Biden was running, but it's an example of how people are using the outrage of the internet and the outrage against institutions, which is not anything new. This has been going on for, you know, at least 12 or 13 years. This, this collective outrage against institutions has started way before, but it really started to build up as, as know, yeah. And, you know, to hear, I think a new generation think that they invented this. I'm not trying to sound like I'm a lady, but like we have been in this mess for a while, but now it's like,

Keegan Goudiss (28:10)
It's exhausting. Lose for me.

Nomiki Konst (28:24)
almost it's this next level where there isn't a depth to it that I think, you know, we aren't Bernie or during Occupy there was. Now it's like, it is very much a weapon of, it's like a weapon of mass social ⁓ design. Like there's this, to see how...

someone can tweet something out or somebody can kind of shift public opinion if they have a little bit of influence. And then suddenly thousands of people and bots, let's be honest, which also push things in a direction to make it popular, can impact how someone thinks. Like in the old days, three years ago, four years ago, like say prior to 2020, before some of these algorithms changed even a more aggressive way, I would be able to counter a David Hogg and also get some sort of interaction. Like I can't get that now. It's not.

And I have a lot of validity in this conversation, but it's very difficult. ⁓ So it's, you I think that like we as a society right now have a big challenge in the counter narrative because there's just so many forces to drown it out. ⁓ And the algorithm is like, it's a momentum machine. So if the momentum is going in one direction, you know, know how momentum works. Like it's very hard to pull that momentum away.

Keegan Goudiss (29:40)
Yes.

Nomiki Konst (29:40)
And

so there's an inertia on the other side. so how do you, and like, if you're a woman or a person of color or a woman of color, or, you know, you're queer is really, really, really, really hard to be that counter narrative. And like, I think the other aspect of David Hogg, why it's so effective if he's a white guy, I'm not like trying to use identity, but identity is a big part of how this algorithm works. There's like young white males do really well in the algorithm and

Keegan Goudiss (30:10)
especially when they're victims.

Nomiki Konst (30:10)
So I think,

especially when they're victims, yeah. And it's, you know, the fact that he's conflating two different things that are happening when, like it is about the gender dynamics and a procedural thing that is really common and really, well, I shouldn't say common, but like it's very much like nobody's questioning it internally and then conflating it with like.

Democrats need to be primaried. And, you I don't know if you saw these videos go out about like Debbie Dingell who fell asleep in a hearing the other day. That hearing went until like three in the morning or something, like two or three in the morning. Like, Debbie Dingell needed to be primaried because she fell asleep. By the way, others fell asleep in that hearing too that were younger. It was a long hearing about Medicaid cuts and Democrats were frustrated that they had to deal with this bullshit that Republicans are forcing down their throats right now. And it's going to lose them in election, by the way. Like these are not popular things. ⁓ And Debbie Dingell is like...

A good one, right? So I get, have a, you I understand that this is not new either. Like the average age, by the way, has gone down. The average age of a Congress member is old. Yeah. Welcome to the last 50 years, you know, in our party and in Washington. Not a new concept. I am also, and I remember when I was 28 saying the same thing.

Because I did do this in 20 and you can go find that writing. I did a lot of it. Like we needed to have a next generation, but that was because of a millennial and the baby boomers by the way still haven't let go. But it doesn't mean that just because you're younger, you're better. Look at Pete Buttigieg. Look at everybody in the Trump administration. You know, I would take a Bernie Sanders over most of the young Democrats that I see rising into office right now. I'm being very honest about this because I think that there is a depth that people are missing. You know, it's about

Keegan Goudiss (31:54)
Even AOC.

Nomiki Konst (31:55)
Well yeah!

Keegan Goudiss (31:56)
Bernie over here, I'll see you, big Bernie.

Nomiki Konst (31:57)
Yes, he has institutional knowledge. I'm not saying that AOC wouldn't be a good leader, there's a, there's, she's my Congress member and she's never had a primary, like a real primary. So like, I like the fact when people are tested, it shows you who they are. I've known her since literally the beginning, since she just, just thinking about running for office. So this is not a, any sort of attack on her. It's just, it's just.

Leadership is something that it's a muscle that is nurtured. And it doesn't mean that, you know, we don't have, have a lot of bad older lawmakers and we have to clear away for another generation and nurture them. And then I think that's kind of how we got in this situation where Gen X is kind of the, I don't know if Kamala Harris is Gen X, but that, like that generation has not been able, Kamala Harris to me is like, this is a woman, if she's left her own devices, she's going to mess up. And it's, I don't even necessarily blame her. I blame.

generation before not letting her lead because if you're not able to lead you're not nurturing your muscles and becoming a better leader but with that

Keegan Goudiss (32:55)
There are a of

things that can be critical for Pamela of being a past client and having worked with them very closely, her and her team, and knowing a lot from the inside. This election, yeah, she got handed a raw deal, I feel like. ⁓ And so, yeah, I get really mad when people are trying to blame her. But I do want to zoom out a little bit because there's a thread I just want to pick up on here. one last comment on David Hogg, which...

if if if if him or one of his consultants that's out there showing him off like wants to you know come on and defend uh his honor definitely open invitation to do so if this if this podcast makes its way to someone listening who cares about that but like I I see him as as a broader problem uh regardless of your political views that is cultural which I would sum as GTM get the money

Right? Like I just think that more and more people are like, what is the point? The world is probably going to end at some point. I just need to get as much cash as possible and figure out the way my way to get that, get that money and say what I need to do, play the role, whether it's playing a bad guy, a good guy, a little bit of both mysterious guy. Obviously not always guys and being very gendered here. I mean, people, not just men. ⁓ or so, you know, like

I see a cultural problem of people just not caring. And I feel like Bernie, like what you and I were a part of so many years ago now, 10 years ago, it was so special, was tapped into people frustrated at banks, creating a raw deal for people and getting away with it. And, and the Clintons profiting off of that and going and getting paid to speak to them and not releasing the transcripts like right, like there was this real public outrage. I'm not sure.

exist today because people are so focused on getting theirs and and and maybe this is more of an existential question but I'm curious like how where do we go from here or or should we just all like try to make our money before the world burns?

Nomiki Konst (35:02)
I'm like the last person in world to do whatever. God, I wish I knew that gene. That capitalism gene.

Keegan Goudiss (35:09)
I know, right?

mean, I'm big into like post-scarcity economics and that is a little bit of pipe dream for me, but it's what keeps me going. So my hope is that we can get past that. It just might not happen in my lifetime.

Nomiki Konst (35:22)
I think I was raised by like immigrant culture where we still recycle our tinfoil and I've like been fighting that kind of, you know, culture for my entire life. and it's still, I still like, it's a, I don't know. I've tried to be that person. I wish that I'd had that, that kind of upbringing, but my brain doesn't work that way. ⁓ How many times I've started like non-profit-y things versus things that could have been totally been

for profit and I just, my brain didn't think that way. And now I'm like, ⁓ that could have been a for profit thing, not a nonprofit. Why did I make it a nonprofit? Anyways, ⁓ I do think you're tapping into something that is important. And there's the vibes of the Bernie movement that I think.

Keegan Goudiss (35:56)
Yeah.

Nomiki Konst (36:08)
Gen Z, it turned into the outrage on the internet and the vibes are being

taken by Gen Z, absorbed by Gen Z, but not the values. And, you the values came out of like, I am a, an elder millennial, know, we, elder millennial, yes, I'm 41, but you know, we came out, okay, so I was, I was going into my freshman year, no, my senior year of high school when 9-11 happened.

Keegan Goudiss (36:24)
I love it.

Nomiki Konst (36:36)
everything about my future life was framed in a post-9-11 world. I didn't end up going to colleges I wanted to go to because it was New York and D.C. and my mom was panicking. There's just so many different aspects here. And then we go into the Iraq War and of course that affects our generation. then...

the economy collapses and that affects, and that's just as we get out of college, or least the elder millennials. So everything in my world and specifically those who've been around my generation this age has been framed through the lens of chaos and crisis and institutions failing and the economy collapsing and like trying to be resourceful. And then this is all happening as the digital age is coming about. so we're like the most raw digital natives, but also know the world before.

So I think, you know, and then Occupy, of course. So it was natural for the Bernie movement to be very much focused on values. he, but there's this like inverse thing that's happening right now where it's like cancel all the elders and we don't actually have values and we just have the outrage. I'm, I, know, outrage can be very helpful if it's rooted in something, but if it's just flailing or if it's directing, it's just a weapon.

And I really worry about, I mean, going back to the hog situation, because it's just such a great example. He doesn't talk about, and when he's asked, he doesn't answer it by the way. How he's picking the candidate is challenging. Why he thinks it's okay to not be neutral in the DNC when he's asked about that, which is something that we fought very hard for, for many years to have a neutral DNC. And, you know, what he plans on doing the DNC. If you don't like the DNC so much, then why are you a vice chair?

Like go on the outside. mean, I'm not in the DNC and I couldn't. Yeah, exactly. That was a reference to money.

Keegan Goudiss (38:27)
Yeah, for

those who can see I was making money, money, grabbing the money.

Nomiki Konst (38:31)
Yeah, mean, it's what's supposed to be back to what you're saying about, like, the world's collapsing and let's just find the money. I think there are some people who, especially in the influencer economy, the world that we're living in, it's like very easy and sexy and attainable to do that. And for others who just like, I think, beat up older millennials, I don't see a lot of people around me kind of gravitating to that space. Doesn't mean that they don't exist, but it's just, just think that we've been like.

know, burdened by so much that we never will see the light, because we just don't know of a word. I'm also the place like, I don't have this let's move to Canada mindset because I'm like, we've been through this like 50 times already. Like, I'm a pro at this. Do you guys want to know? Not to mention the pandemic. I mean, that's for people who, know, graduate high school in 2002 and college or in 2006, seven, eight, around that time, I think we're all very

Keegan Goudiss (39:13)
Very true. you think this is bad? I'll tell you.

Nomiki Konst (39:30)
Like we have our tricks. And then, know, and by the way, and the U.S. was in a better situation than many countries around the world. Like I'm Greek, you know that, we've been to Greece together for a political conference. I mean, if you want to talk about an economy crashing, my family members of mine, I mean, they were on the barter system 10 years ago. There were people just like they couldn't get cash from their ATMs and

Keegan Goudiss (39:49)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nomiki Konst (39:56)
pensions and people were killing them. mean, the suicide rate went up. It was horrible. It totally collapsed an economy of people who were very educated. mean, that generation in Greece was the highest educated in all of Europe. People don't realize that. And they're still getting some of the lowest wages, if not the lowest wages in the E right now, still to this day. ⁓ And the cost of living has gone up because a bunch of foreigners, Northern Europeans and Americans have moved there and bought up.

distressed properties and so now Greeks can't afford to live in their own.

Keegan Goudiss (40:27)
and not to mention Airbnb, right? I saw lot of Airbnb graffiti there.

Nomiki Konst (40:29)
Yeah. Exactly. So

much Airbnb. And this is happening all over the world. It's happening in Italy, it's happening in Portugal and Spain, Argentina and Mexico. mean, you name it. But that was rough. We don't have social security nets in our safety nets in our country for the most part. We have some. But even with social safety nets in Europe, it was still coming down to bartering because the debt crisis was so bad.

So, you know.

Keegan Goudiss (41:02)
That may happen here,

by the way. We'll get into predictions in a little bit, but I'm not unconvinced that we won't have a Greek-level financial crisis. We'll see. It just depends. Trump keeps going back and forth on whether he actually wants to completely tank the economy or just make us suffer a little bit.

Nomiki Konst (41:20)
We just,

it just like going back and forth like every day is just a wild ride in the markets. I just want like one billionaire to come forward and be like, I will buy you a jet, an American billionaire. I just want them to say like, take this one or Boeing just to offer them one of those like 767, was 767, is that the one that kept falling from the air and like the wings would blow out or something? The irony of this is also it's a Boeing jet.

Keegan Goudiss (41:23)
Yeah, you know, it just depends on who's paying him that day. Who got him a jet, you know.

it that yes, very ironic. And I agree a million percent like if I could go infinity percent with you on ⁓ we just need to start offering gifts to Trump because he really is that simple. Like he just is a man that wants to be like, like, have his I mean, they're putting fucking ⁓ banners up in DC like he's Kim. He's like, like, he's our dear leader for his parade like it's

Nomiki Konst (41:46)
Like, he's taking a real risk there.

they're getting ready for the military. When is it?

Keegan Goudiss (42:15)
it's June 14th, but they're like starting to get ready in DC and I saw them putting they're starting to put banners up of like a portrait of him like along the parade route. It's like we're going to be in North Korea soon is not but that is the like he he just has everything yet. This could go the entire podcast episode. I don't want to talk about Trump that much right now.

Nomiki Konst (42:27)
my god.

I know

you want me to do a prediction later, but I'm gonna do an early prediction. And I don't know if this is against the law, so I have to frame this very carefully. But imagine he is on that Boeing flight and like one of the Boeing things happens. The arc, the irony, the narrative. That's perfect way for the story to end is like, something catches on fire.

Keegan Goudiss (42:44)
Yeah, interesting.

The window like pops out.

Nomiki Konst (43:02)
It wasn't because like, Qatar planted something. It was just good old fashioned, shitty capitalism.

Keegan Goudiss (43:13)
Yeah, no, that

is a good one. ⁓ We'll see what happens. I don't think that's illegal, but just in case anybody is like listening to this, we're talking hypothetically as a joke. Yeah, this is just a parody. ⁓ I am curious though, ⁓ just one last 2016 question for you, because we talk a lot about 2016. It was a pretty big moment in both our lives that changed us in many positive and negative ways. ⁓

Nomiki Konst (43:20)
It was a joke.

But we...

Keegan Goudiss (43:40)
If you could talk to yourself, your 2016 know me. If you go back time travel, knowing everything you've learned, what would you say? I know I'm putting you on the spot here. Yeah. Any advice, stock tips, know, insider trade. I mean, we're talking about money here, so maybe it's just like which. No, no, no, it doesn't have to be money. I was saying, but you could go be like, hey, buy the Melania coin at the right time. You'll make millions, but like I'm just saying whatever.

Nomiki Konst (43:48)
Like, This is a big one. Advice? Journal.

I don't know about money. this is a money thing? I don't know.

Yeah. ⁓

Keegan Goudiss (44:06)
Anything right advice?

Any sort of comment about the future? You know what you go back and you visit 2016 know me. What would you say?

Nomiki Konst (44:15)
I think for myself, two things I would have journaled. I'm really angry at myself for not taking the time to journal. ⁓ I would have written more. I did write a lot of articles, but I didn't write as much as I should have. I had a lot of ideas that people stole later, because I would talk about them and then they'd go write them and take credit for them. So own your worth, And then along with owning my worth, also negotiate those contracts a little bit better. I look back and I'm like, okay, could have, could have, what could have happened?

Very selfish, because this is a money theme. I don't know, for other people, what would I say? ⁓

2016, Nomi, what would I say? I don't know, it's such a blur. I don't know, what would you say, Keegan? Give me a prompt.

Keegan Goudiss (44:55)
If I would go back, I would probably tell myself to take better care because I worked my ass off like seven days a week and I like look back now. At that time, I thought that it was going to turn into like, speaking of riches, my own millions and making sure I can pay for college and pay for my retirement off of that work. I developed some pretty bad habits that feel like broke me for a bit. I'm doing better now, thankfully, but I was ⁓ like...

taking Adderall to work until two in the morning and then getting really high so I could pass out. And like, I just don't think that was very healthy and I would go back.

Nomiki Konst (45:32)
Wait, so you take a pattern

off and then what would you do afterwards? I'm so curious.

Keegan Goudiss (45:37)
I would usually use cannabis to get down. Sometimes it would be like, you know, Xanax or something like that. But like, yeah, I was always like I was in this this this like, lots of uppers work work work work work work work work work. Okay, I need to shut down like I need something to shut my brain down is usually cannabis and sometimes drinking but it's just like I wish I could go back and tell myself like you don't it's not worth any of this.

I can't tell you what's going to happen because I'll break the universe or something if I reveal too much, but it's like. Use drugs for enjoyment, not for like working nonstop.

Nomiki Konst (46:14)
Yeah. I did not, I was actually pretty clean. I was doing a lot of yoga. I look back at those photos and like, how did I have time to do yoga in between all these things? I was on TV. I was very much conscious of how I, it was like my one saving grace was yoga. So luckily during that period, I was very healthy. Afterwards, I would say, if you want to go to like 2019 and beyond, I think that's when I started to get a little unhealthy in my habits. But then, I don't know.

Keegan Goudiss (46:23)
No, that's really smart. I wish I had taken that path.

Nomiki Konst (46:41)
It was the TYT days when I flipped to TYT and I was in the road constantly and I was in the reform commission because it was happening simultaneously. I think that's when I started to wear down my body. I look at photos and I'm oh, I do not look good. I look younger now than I did during that period. But 2016, I don't know, was so, there was so much optimism. I think the only thing I would say is just be careful of who you trust because...

Keegan Goudiss (47:00)
Yeah.

Nomiki Konst (47:05)
there were so many people in the movement that either at the time were not really there with right intentions or could potentially have been working for the right or some foreign interest or something. I think that we would, both of us probably agree. ⁓ But then also just people who...

Keegan Goudiss (47:05)
Hmm.

Nomiki Konst (47:21)
were there for the money, were there for the fame and would take credit for things. mean, I that was the thing that was amazing to me is like, just how easily people who had nothing to do with something would go out there and take credit for things. And then in 2020, just like this new crop of people showed up and just like took over the Bernie campaign with no institutional knowledge, no values. And like, then they wrote books. I mean, I know you and I both know, but like, it kind of, it was a rewriting of the history of what happened. And I think that...

you know, people like ourselves, probably should be a little bit more conscious of, which I mean, I, that's why I wish I would, had journaled because there was, there were so many stories that we could have told. I guess.

Keegan Goudiss (48:02)
Yeah, our good

our mutual friend, my former partner run like says this a lot like you know the the timestamp is a critical aspect of content that people don't realize you got to like and this part of why I'm trying to do this. I want to create like these stories and put them out there and have it timestamped because I didn't for so long, you know, and like I agree with you. It's like there's all these things I wish I had written down. I wish I had published. ⁓ Yeah, so I'm here.

Nomiki Konst (48:23)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I remember there was

somebody who wrote a book on like reforming the DNC and interviewed me about it. then, well, first it interviewed me about it, like just in general, not like I'm writing a book about, and then they took everything I said and turned it into a book. They were nowhere near it. But there was also this, it's just, I'm amazed at the grift that people have, but like none of us had time to do it because we're doing it. And then suddenly there's this book that pops up about, you know, all the reforms.

Democrats would do it and then they go on a book tour. like, are you talking about? Yeah. We'll talk about who that was afterwards.

Keegan Goudiss (49:00)
Yeah, no. So we're

gonna do a follow up episode where Naomi and I named names because there's a lot there's a lot of there's a lot out there and there's definitely where a lot of people you know, it's like the problem is, I hope our listeners understand some of this is a lot of it's her say and you know, like there are people who said stuff to me and I think we're actually trying to you know, purposely mess up Bernie's campaign. But it's like, you know, it's hard, you can't really prove that like you just have your suspicions, right? Like, you know,

Nomiki Konst (49:03)
I'm sure what it

Some of them

were like, I'm sorry, but one person went to go work for RT and then Chelsea Gabber. Like there's some people that are very obvious that they were.

Keegan Goudiss (49:34)
Well, yeah, but I also still worked with Tulsi up until her presidential campaign launch, which was a mess and as a story for another time. And I still like will never forget asking Tulsi. So I'm curious, are you an agent of Russia? Yes.

Nomiki Konst (49:49)
You are cancer?

once you've.

Keegan Goudiss (49:51)
She laughed at me and said no for the record.

You we were having pizza at her house and talked like we were right before she'd launched her presidential campaign and she and I was just like I had a couple of drinks in me and I was like, I'm just I want to ask. I want to see what happens because I still think I don't know. It's so hard to know. I just think that you know, Tulsi and a bunch of others that have been sort of red pilled. I would call it. It comes down to ego and like Tulsi really hated being criticized.

Nomiki Konst (50:07)
Wow.

Keegan Goudiss (50:20)
in the media. hated Nira. She hated all the centrist sometimes for good reason. And she really hated the media and like Tucker was always so like welcoming to her. Like she would always comment on how great it was to go and Tucker show because he was like really nice. And I think that obviously there's like the whole like cult thing that she was a part of to that like probably impacted this.

Nomiki Konst (50:29)
Yeah.

week.

He's a weak person because Tucker is nice to me too, but you know, know your enemy weak should be no.

Keegan Goudiss (50:45)
Yeah, I met Tucker once too and he

was very nice and I was like this is like the crossfire days and I was like, oh, Tucker Carlson is nice. But it didn't make me into a Republican.

Nomiki Konst (50:54)
Wait, what's he saying? Like, weak people. But she had, I mean, her background, for those who haven't dug in, I think it started way earlier. Her modi ties and her families, you know. I don't think she's ever a progressive.

Keegan Goudiss (51:06)
All we should do

it like one episode will will it'll be like Charlie and always sending in Philadelphia and we'll have a big this is when I start doing video again we'll have like a big chart and all the the strings tied together of like who's connected to who because no me and I like to talk about this a lot because there's people there's there's a lot of compromised individuals ⁓ in the in the democratic and media world.

Nomiki Konst (51:19)
I love it.

I love that.

We haven't even gotten to gray zone. That's a fun one.

Keegan Goudiss (51:39)
I'm

curious though, what like you made a really good prediction already. I'm curious if anyone. Some some that won't get the Secret Service investigating us. Do you have? Do you have some some some forecasts that you can share with our listeners for this year and beyond?

Nomiki Konst (51:44)
Boing. Boing gate.

I

⁓ mean, more specific, me a genre.

Keegan Goudiss (52:07)
All right, that's very vague. ⁓

So I mean, we could talk, I'll give you an option, right? So I'm curious, lot of my guests have been talking about 20 28 candidates. So if you want to make a prediction on like, you know, who's gonna come out of the gate stronger, or, you know, likely nominees and when you like, totally open to that. But if you'd rather, if you'd rather stay out of the 20 28 race for now, I would say what is ⁓ like, what do you think the state of the economy will be next year at this point?

Nomiki Konst (52:33)
⁓ okay. Well, I don't know about that. I'm not an economist. So I'm like the wrong person to ask about that. Let's do that. I think when it comes to actually, mean, since that's the topic of this, most of this conversation has been about the DNC.

Keegan Goudiss (52:39)
Okay, how about the state of the Democratic Party? Are things going to get better? Why don't we go there?

Nomiki Konst (52:51)
Yeah, think Ken is aggressively, know, Ken is not going to be ousted. I think that this David Hogg thing is going to be like, he's going to be voted out because DNC members are not having this. Like there's the external conversation and then there's the internal conversation. the DNC is an internal operating, you know, party. And I think Ken has a lot of support and this is just emboldening the members, at least that I've spoken to.

And I'm watching them also like on social media, try to explain things to folks. And this is all very procedural, but like for the most part, I think this is just angry more members. So I think, you know, Ken is going to continue to do what he's doing quietly and hopefully he'll be able to build a stronger messaging apparatus. I get it. Like he had to basically flip this party overnight and it's not an easy thing to do. And there were definitely going to be forces that are going to try to sabotage his work because there's a of money in it.

So I think that state parties being funded more, which they've already put in a million dollars, which is great. I think that we're going to see some turn. Some of this is just momentum. It's not even about money. It's just some of the legislatures I think will turn back, hopefully, in the next couple of years. I think some of these legislatures are a lot closer than people are aware in states that are consistently red. Like Arizona, for instance.

I use this as example because in 2006 we turned it blue when I worked there. So it's always been a state that has more, there's more of an opportunity than people think. And the legislature is more MAGA oriented, that group of MAGA voters, it's not, the way that the makeup is right now is there's actually the centrist Republicans are the ones that could be easily voted out and the Democrats could take over and then you just have the MAGA voters and the Democrats in the legislature.

for the most part. So you have this, you have a lot of opportunities to fight back at the local level. And I think, you know, cities are doing that as they did in 2017 against Trump. didn't know, obviously Congress, like I, if the economy turns around, I think it's going to be enough because Trump doesn't have a choice. You know, we didn't talk about his foreign policy trip right now, but he's switching his gears every day. Like I'm totally confused as to how he abandoned Netanyahu like overnight and sort of sidelined with, you know, the mid East.

⁓ but I'm sure it has, there's, there's some economic aspect. ⁓ and the fact that, you know, he got the last task at home and, today he once again said that he wants to develop Gaza and turn into, you know, what did he call it? I forgot. He had some term for it. That was, you know, Liberty and Brandy and all that kind of, ⁓ yeah, something awful. But, you know, I think, I think if we, the way that I always look at it is.

Keegan Goudiss (55:05)
probably involve some gifts.

Yeah, something awful.

Nomiki Konst (55:30)
Even Democrats on their worst day are generally in a better position than Republicans on their best day. And so much of our electoral outcomes has been the effect of kind of momentum. You know, which is why it's really important for Democrats to just like up their game, maybe like 15%, because I think that's all you really need to defeat Republicans. We've talked about this, you know.

so much. They have to pull every single lever. They have to put in hundreds of millions of dollars into judicial races. They have to have tech oligarchs switch the algorithms to go in their favor. They have to have restrictive voting laws. They have to take over the courts and legislatures. And still, even with all of that, and not to mention the presidential race, Kamala Harris barely lost these swing states when you look at the numbers.

So I do think that we have an opportunity, especially if we get our house in order. And even if we don't get to a hundred percent, if we get to 30%, I think we have a great opportunity of taking back power. Now, if we can get up to 50%, 75 % and rebuild these institutions and make them more democratic, then I think we have a really great hope. We have a lot of hope for the future. We just have to do it. And that means like not being distracted by David Hogg BS.

Frankly, because none of that is making a difference in everyday people's lives. They don't care about the institutional, you know, fights that are happening within the DNC. They don't even know how like, like you've had me on to explain how the DNC works. And I'm bored listening to it because it doesn't have people's lives, but nobody wants to hear about that. They want to hear about your goals. And if David Hogg is just railing against the DNC that he was elected to a month ago and, and, and Ken Martin was elected to a month ago, why aren't you talking about, you know, what these candidates that you want to run?

Keegan Goudiss (56:56)
you

Nomiki Konst (57:12)
are representing. He's just talking about the DNC brand. And I think, you we have to keep our eye on the prize here. It's about working people. It's about what we were talking about earlier, how we were all motivated to join the Bernie campaign and why so many people would cry when he would give these 90 minute to two and a half hours long speeches, ⁓ over and over and over again, you know, people wanted their lives to improve. so just keep the eye on the ball and

rebuild our institutions a little bit. And that's my hope right now.

Keegan Goudiss (57:43)
That is a great note to add on. agree. I hope that we can get focused on that original purpose.

Nomiki Konst (57:50)
Yeah, I don't think it's rocket science. Everyone's like, what's the brand of the DMC? And like, we need to get our message right. ⁓ we got the message. We've always had the message. Just, we need to disseminate it. And that's where the institutional stuff happens. know, investing in every single community in this country so that we have messengers out there, local messengers talking about what Democrats represent, which is hopefully focused on working people. But, you know, and read the forecast. ⁓

Keegan Goudiss (58:13)
Thank you. I appreciate you joining.

Nomiki Konst (58:15)
You're awesome. Thank you. Congrats.