The Forecast

Keegan Goudiss (00:19)

Welcome back to the forecast. Today's episode is for anyone feeling the weight of the moment. When every headline hits like a jolt to the nervous system and the pace of political, ecological and cultural unraveling can feel relentless. We're joined today by Jill Barrett, a systems thinker, trauma informed executive coach, founder of Evolve Impact.

which is a collective of over 30 leadership practitioners helping individuals and organizations move through uncertainty with clarity, integrity, and courage. You may have read Jill's article in our inaugural issue, and I encourage you to listen to her excellent podcast, Shaping Work. Jill's worked at the intersection of business, social change, and human development for over two.

decades with clients ranging from Salesforce, Disney and Siemens to grassroots coalitions and global NGOs. What really sets her apart to me is a rare ability to bridge strategic insight and emotional intelligence, something I've found very personally helpful to be clear. So thank you, Jill. ⁓

How do we build cultures both inside ourselves within our organizations that can weather the storms ahead? If you're someone trying to stay informed and trying to stay sane, to lead with a heart in an era that often feels heartless, this conversation is for you. Jill welcome to your forecast.

Jill (01:46)

It's so good to be here with you.

Keegan Goudiss (01:49)

I really appreciate you joining. Obviously there's a lot going on in the world, taking time to talk about this, especially in the context of everything that's going on. For the listeners, just some context, Jill has worked with me as a leadership coach for, what is it, a couple years now? Yeah, and so I've been really impressed ⁓ with her work.

Jill (02:11)

I so, yeah.

Keegan Goudiss (02:16)

both as it relates to me and others. And so when I heard her podcast, I was like, can I please have you on as a guest? And so, you know, I've been thinking a lot about what I want to start with. And the question that feels right today is Jill, from a systems thinking perspective, what are some subtle ways deregulation under authoritarian regimes start to erode the emotional and psychological safety of a workforce?

or a society. That one's hard for me to read, so had to write it down.

Jill (02:50)

That's like mouthful. And that's a big question.

Keegan Goudiss (02:52)

Yes.

Yeah, maybe I unpack it a little bit more on like, let's let's start with, you know, what do you think about what's happening with deregulation right now? I'll let the listeners decide. They agree with my point that authoritarian regimes that are doing it. But like, would you agree that there seems to be a lot of deregulation of our nervous systems happening right now?

Jill (03:19)

Do you say deregulation of our nervous systems? ⁓ wow. I want to just tell everybody, Keegan is such a brilliant mind and it has been such a joy to work with him. the kinds of things that we talk about really stretch me and help me grow. Thank you, Keegan. And so I am looking forward to talking with you ⁓ today and to the extent that you can bring in your perspective. I appreciate that.

And then if I say things that are like, what do you mean by that? What does that word mean? If we could talk about, you know, defying that more and make sure that we're meeting, I'm meeting people where they are and I'm following along with what you're talking about. I mean, I definitely agree that we're in a time, deregulation is the intention. Deregulation is the intention. And I think it's interesting to think about deregulation of our

government, our systems, and then this idea of regulation in our nervous systems and co-regulation. It's the first time I thought about that word in all these different contexts.

Keegan Goudiss (04:30)

What is co-regulation?

Jill (04:31)

Co-regulation is ⁓ the fact that my nervous system, if I'm regulated, if a leader is regulated, ⁓ the people around me and you are more likely to be regulated.

Keegan Goudiss (04:45)

Like, because if I'm, I'm obviously, you know a lot about my history and some of the listeners do here. I've been very, shared some personal takes about revolution messaging and everything that happened in the past. And I think about that a lot because towards the end I was like constantly like, oh my God, what am I going to do? How are we going to make payroll? And I look back and I'm like, wow, I was probably beaming out all sorts of not great energy.

Jill (05:10)

Yeah, beaming out is right. Yeah, it's literally coming from your body to their bodies and they are not even aware. We're not even aware of it. ⁓ Yeah, so that's one of the most powerful ways that a leader can influence their people, their companies, their communities right now is to, first of all, be regulated. So this word deregulation is kind of...

⁓ doesn't fit. It doesn't fit in with the, ⁓ you know, the nervous system kind of work that we do at Evolve with leaders. There's no such thing as deregulation, actually.

Keegan Goudiss (05:50)

Well, so

it's a very wordy question. And so I, you know, now that I'm reading it, I feel like I should have written this a different way. That happens sometimes when I come on these, I write very lofty questions and realize maybe they, I could have simplified them at a time. So thanks for bearing with me on that. But what I'm really trying to get at is, is it feels like.

fascists. I'll just call them the fascists and let our listeners decide whether they agree with the fascists are in charge right now or not. But for short hand, I'm just gonna say like under the current fascist regime, it feels like they purposely want our nervous systems deregulated because that makes it easier for them to to seize power. Would you would you agree that like that could be a goal of a fascist regime?

Jill (06:38)

So the word

that, yes, so I'm, I follow now. The word that we use is dysregulated and deregulation. Maybe that's another word that people use. need to go check it out. Deregulation, you're bringing up my, you know, I master some public policy and I do have a little bit of economic.

Keegan Goudiss (06:46)

Not deregulation, yeah, that's my point.

Well, would say it's

both deregulation and dysregulation right now, what I'm curious is like, what can you share with our listeners who feel that and feel like bombarded with everything that's happening right now, which seems to be trying to dysregulate us? Can you share some insights on how to cope with that in this moment?

Jill (07:01)

Yeah. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, would love to. I this is a topic we talk about a lot in sessions and whether it's intentional from folks or it's unintentional, the activities that are happening are causing people to get into dysregulated states. we like for your listeners, I don't know if you've unpacked this before. mean, when you're in a regulated state, is calm. You're calm in your nervous system. You're clear in your thinking. You're kind of

⁓ peaceful or whatever, like you have equanimity in your emotions. You can handle stuff. And then when you get dysregulated, it's like everything goes in disarray and you get stuck in a flight or freeze state. ⁓ And how are you going to know? How many people listening know when they're in a dysregulated state? They know, but how many are actually monitoring

and managing that right there on the spot. So one of the practices I started early on, because I was very dysregulated after the election results for many months like everybody else. because I was listening to the news, when I was coming in that sense, after I listened to the news, I would make sure that I did like a sound meditation to

to bring in different sounds in my mind. And it was like singing bowls with a yoga nidra meditation. ⁓ you know, whatever it takes, people do different things to regulate after you get dysregulated, you know, what works for you, what works for me and might not work for you. ⁓ But, you know, over the years and not just now with the election, but over the years with all kinds of things that happened, I remember...

coaching a whole bunch of leaders at Warner Media during three rounds of layoffs in one year. we would spend, I coached some HR folks, we spent like 15, 20 minutes of every coaching session just doing breathing meditation. They were so stressed.

And then after a while, your nervous system starts to like you start to get into this system where a routine where ⁓ something stresses you out and then you can calm yourself down and you kind of develop the muscle to be able to come back to center, come back to calm, come back to clarity. So if anybody can't like calm like six, seven years ago, I couldn't find calm. I could not calm myself down.

And I was very afraid of that. But now I'm pretty good at it. Like I can calm my nervous system. So you train, you're training your brain. It's something that you can do. And people have found great help with that. What do you think about that Keegan?

Keegan Goudiss (10:17)

Yeah.

I love it. You know full disclosure. I'm a big believer in you know what Jill's talking about here. I agree.

different strokes for different folks, I think is what comes to mind right now in terms of people may find.

their own path. might not be meditation. It has been for me and you know, I found it very helpful. And I also think that physical exercise, spending time outside.

spending time with like friends, you know, trying to be present in the moment with my family like that, that has all been helpful for me too. And I, you know, I think a lot about this time around versus Trump 45.

You know, it's like everybody was her just kind of didn't know. Slide like well, what can we expect now like we actually really know what to expect it actually makes it worse, I think. And so the one benefit. ⁓

from my silver lining. I always tell people is is that. At least we're being forced to be more present and enjoy our moments like find what we can to really. To really. Help keep us. Feeling good in this moment because like everybody I talked to is like I just can't watch the news. Does that a common thing I hear which is not great for our society so we have to figure that out too I think.

I'm hoping a podcast like this where you build community with other people. There's still ways to get the news without it. Disregulating you. ⁓ Or at least letting that happen. You're being insulated from the attempt to dysregulate you. I'm hopeful for that future, but I think what you're saying is spot on and. Yeah, I think a lot right now about. Sort of this era that we're in where it feels like.

The cruelty is the point like the stuff that they are doing to other human beings that they're gloating about that they're bragging about. It's all for profit for their personal gain, their their buddies gain.

And of the things I thought about coming into our conversation, because you're very focused on emotionally intelligent leadership. Like how? How can we like? Still thrive in a system where the people in charge. Are like pushing detachment, they're pushing profit. Over people. I do have any suggestions to our our listeners. Hopefully some of you are also consider yourselves emotionally intelligent.

Jill (12:46)

Um, yes, I hope so. It's quite the journey to be emotionally intelligent. And if, if somebody that's listening right now is like, yeah, no, I'm cool. Like I, I don't, I don't have any problems. Then you probably have issues with emotional intelligence because you're like in denial that you have emotions. Sorry. No offense. But I always like the people that are like, man, I'm good. Are you though? Um, coming from somebody who historically had big, big emotions and it's taken a long time to, um, figure out what I was going to do about that.

⁓ What I was thinking before when you were just talking is it's almost, I'm not gonna say it's a gift. It's an opportunity. What's happening right now is an opportunity and it is an opportunity for us to realize that we are born to thrive. We are naturally, like when you're born, it's like a miracle, all that happens. It's a miracle and everything you're capable of, like,

And we believe this at the company is everything you're capable of is right there with you, like an acorn, beginning of an oak tree. Everything's right there. And so ⁓ we forget because we have all this ⁓ confrontation and stress and worry going on around us that we're built to thrive. ⁓ We can handle it. The trouble is we've been taught because of the

the patriarchy and because of particular kinds of religions and stuff. think we're born flawed and we have to outsource our agency. so guess what? That's really going to show up under times of stress. So it's an opportunity to say, what am I made of? What am I made of? I'm going to explore this right now.

What I believe that the party, like the Democratic Party and leaders need right now is really to tap into some significant strength and will.

to ⁓ be able to weather this, what's going on. And we're beginning to see more of that. And I mean the real stuff, not fake stuff. We see a lot of fakeness. So how do you tap into strength? Okay. So if you're an organization, you're trying to, you're emotionally intelligent leader and you see somebody that's working with you that's very angry about what's going on right now. ⁓ Or you yourself as a leader is anger, okay? Anger.

When it is not like immediately acted upon but sat with, it transforms into strength.

There's a lot of things that you can do to let it transform into strength but feeling your anger like so leaders that allow their people to feel their feelings not bring it into the not bring it up to the space but like know that you know, it's okay like I'm angry today or I'm feeling angry today not be afraid of anger the gift on the other side of anger strength anger is what Motivates our nervous system to move to action say this is not okay But if we stay we can't stay in the anger, but we let it transform and you know

One thing that's worked a lot for me is working out, doing strength workouts and also a little bit of boxing and biking and stuff with my anger. And y'all know when you lash out in anger, it doesn't feel good afterwards. I'm just lashing out. I mean, I have done so much of that. doesn't just something's lost in that, but don't lose your anger. Let it sit and transform. So that's the kind of emotional intelligence that we help companies with, like not be afraid.

of it and understand what it's teaching you. And I'm talking about strength in this particular instance, but for somebody else, it might be like a boundary was crossed or something.

So we gotta be strong. Like we have to be stronger under this. We have to be stronger than the fascists.

Keegan Goudiss (16:38)

You're reminding me of Oasis is fan of Oasis. know, don't look back anger. heard you'll say I was just stuck with me for a moment there is hi.

Jill (16:43)

yeah.

I love it. I love when you bring songs. Yes, and dance.

Keegan Goudiss (16:59)

I want to zoom in on one thing. You you talked about the patriarchy.

⁓ And so it's like interesting to me sometimes when people. Male female dichotomy I. I always wonder if we were truly a matriarchy, what society would be like and I get this debate with other feminist friends sometimes.

I will say like. For me. It can't be like. The matriarchy or the patriarchy, it needs to be some sort of. Non binary Arki I guess. ⁓ I listen to you like you blame the patriarchy and then you were going through and you were to me or you're mentioning some things that are very like much core of the patriarchy around like strength. ⁓ And then my own convoluted view of like.

Jill (17:34)

Yeah.

Keegan Goudiss (17:48)

Male traits versus female traits. But I'm curious, like as I slowly dig a hole here with my question.

You like say we dismantle the patriarchy.

Like what then?

I want hear your vision like what is it? Is it like a matriarchal society like I like I just I can't resist so I know this is like a really big question to to to drop on you, but I want to hear his vision for for a better society than what we have.

Jill (18:09)

I love it.

Not at all.

I love it. Well, if you study matriarchal societies way back when, ⁓ it's a society of balance. It's actually not a feminine society necessarily. The matriarchs that bring, ⁓ you know, it's the life and the death, the beginnings and the endings, you know, there's a lot of balancing out of that. ⁓

of that leadership. So I'm really not saying bring in all like the mothering kind of energy. If you want to go in that direction, it would be a balance of both. ⁓ And I do want to mention that strength is also a, ⁓ it takes some serious strength to push out those kids, those babies and all this stuff.

Keegan Goudiss (19:02)

I know, as soon as I said it, was like, oh, no, I'm wrong.

yeah, no, I've witnessed it. Yes, yes, no, for sure. No, was like, as soon as I said it.

Jill (19:13)

But yeah, I mean, the way that it is used by a lot of people comes across as some sort of toxic masculinity, I think, in terms of strength and then muscular strength and all that, for sure. Absolutely. But there's different kinds of kinds of strengths. ⁓ So but I but now that you mention it, I do believe that we need more of a like a maternal energy in our in our country, that we have a lot of paternal

energy and patriarchy are not just like we have a lot of this go out and into the world and conquer ish kind of energy and you're not conquering but like go out and like explore and come back and bring back what you got or whatever. And the we don't have enough of the I don't know, I just don't think we have enough of the hearth and home. When I was paying thinking of becoming a painter at one point.

In my life, I was going to paint a bunch of home, hearth and home stuff ⁓ to remind us like that's a sacred space. ⁓ I'm not trying to say that women should do it. I'm talking about the the maternal energy.

Keegan Goudiss (20:26)

So you're not planning on killing all men just having a society just for women.

Jill (20:31)

No, it's the kind of conversations you have with your feminist friends.

Keegan Goudiss (20:36)

had a

couple of those car I just actually like right before we're talking about I was talking with someone about forced vasectomies for men. ⁓

Jill (20:44)

wow. I'm not surprised it went there.

Keegan Goudiss (20:46)

So,

and so I was like, yeah, so maybe I'm pulling in all over that conversation in my mental space, but I...

I like so there's this book that you recommended ⁓ to me and it comes to mind the personality pattern five personality patterns by by Stephen Kessler right says name. ⁓

And there's this line where he's talking about people who are more heart centered, right? Like, so when I'm hearing what you're saying, like when I think of more maternal energy, I'm thinking more heart centered, more feelings based.

And it's just lying in the book where it's like people who are more heart centered, which I consider myself to be, may struggle in society. It's like the United States that is not as heart centered and they may feel at home visiting countries like Italy that is more heart centered. And I was like, it was like a big spark in my brain when I was listening to that audio book. I say, listen, I'm reading the book, but I'm listening to it.

⁓ cause it really whenever I go to Italy, I'm like man, people just get here. They like love life. They like feel you know, like there's nothing wrong with feeling. All sorts of emotions like that's part of the beauty of life, right? Like the sadness. All the way to the the ecstasy, right? You know, there's just all range of human emotions that was makes it beautiful. And you really do. I like this for me. I like can sense that.

Jill (22:04)

Yeah.

Keegan Goudiss (22:21)

When I'm somewhere like Italy, whereas here in the US it does not. ⁓ Does not, it just doesn't feel the same way, and so I guess what I'm asking is should I just move to Italy? Joe is that the solution or can we can we build more of a heartfelt? Community here in the in the US.

Jill (22:40)

I'm a big believer in if somebody, somebody's soul is telling them to go do something, do it. So move to Italy.

No, we need you here, but move to the... Yeah, think that's so cool to hear that you felt that it was a different energy there. That's exactly what I'm talking about. yeah, it's heart-centered. I'm not sure what I think about that, but I know that the mother energy, the mothering energy is ⁓ connecting with the infant before the infant's brain is online.

and even before the emotions are online. So it's body first. So I guess when I think about the maternal influence on us as humans, it's going to be ⁓ a regulated nervous system that is ⁓ going to let us all know we're okay. That's more maternal. It's going to be... ⁓

And even, mean, some emotions later. Yeah, so I guess I could see that. And then maybe the fathering, ⁓ the paternal stuff comes in when the child is a little bit older and the brain begins to come online. And so maybe there's a connection with the cognitive there at that point.

Keegan Goudiss (23:59)

I think about a lot in relation to my own.

development as a parent with my kids and I came here where I this many years ago and it was like you shouldn't be like you have to tell your kids there's basically like.

You should practice like. Helping your kids name their emotions and also like acknowledging that it's OK to feel that way that like often is apparent like don't do that. Stop being mad, know, like that's like your first reaction, because you're you're you're very much or at least for me. Maybe I'm over generalizing, but like I feel like it's easy to succumb to like stop like you're yelling and screaming and it's awful. I'm trying to do something right now.

I'm recording a podcast. Why are you screaming at me? Stop it. And that maybe isn't always the right reaction, you know, and no one's perfect as a parent. So I try to be like. Can they understand why you feel that way? Daddy's on a call. We're going to have to talk about this in a little bit, you know, try to be calm in my response.

Jill (24:53)

Yeah.

Keegan Goudiss (24:57)

I'm wondering, you know, when thinking about going back to the patriarchy here and going back to the U.S. and our leadership.

I often wonder, like, is there a way that we can train our leaders better on this front? Like, because I sort of like you. You get you sort of like you get what you deserve, right? Like the US has not had a great track record for education from my perspective for quite some time. And so lo and behold, there is someone who speaks to their their fears and their angers and tells them exactly what they want to hear.

that is able to build a very different looking political coalition that we've seen in a while here. they don't, this political coalition doesn't represent like the, you know, the ideals that I would desire to have, like they're not trying to pass policy that I want passed, right? But I also recognize that they are speaking to something really, really primal in a lot of their base.

which is like things are not great and blame the other people, right? that's that, like, I think this is me editorializing as a result of poor education over the years. Like people like, you know, being able to succumb to that trick really.

Jill (26:17)

Hmm. Hmm.

Keegan Goudiss (26:18)

So I'm wondering like if you think.

Short of more emotional, maybe the answer is just like we need better emotional intelligence training among the population. But do think there's a way to reward leaders for maybe going and appealing to better emotions than, know, othering other people and the other things that are happening?

I think I'm looking for a shortcut here. So that's challenge.

Jill (26:43)

Let me, yeah,

definitely. think I appreciate you're looking for a shortcut. We wanna be efficient. We've got a busy world and we need to make strategic moves like we're playing chess, not checkers.

and we just need to not have that noise. So I'm going to just back up a little bit what you're saying. What came to me was

The coalitions that are formed, I believe, and who they elected, they are, like many of us, they don't feel adequate. They just don't feel adequate. That's where the victimhood comes from. And that's That's old stuff. Something happened.

a long time ago that told them that they can't handle it. And so they have to outsource their agency to somebody bigger and quote unquote stronger who is actually not strong at all than them. All right. So if that is true and a lot of psychologists agree with that, the victimhood comes from early experiences of feeling like I can't handle it. can't do it.

Like literally being unable to separate from your mother and be like, you can make it in the world. ⁓ And then that just begins. What's the answer? The answer is to help people feel like they can be adequate. I mean, this is what I was talking. This is what I wanted to talk further about when I wrote that piece for your amazing magazine, which I can't wait for the next version of the next edition or whatever you call it, issue.

Keegan Goudiss (28:24)

me either.

Jill (28:27)

An Aikido move is what I talked about in the article. And it's about ⁓ like, not engaging with the energy of the quote unquote enemy, but allowing it to kind of go past you and then get it down and get out of the way, sort of disarm them. One of the ways to do that is to understand what is really at play.

and address that. So that's what I'm talking about with the feelings of inadequacy. How can we help these folks feel like actually be strong, not pretend strong, which is victimhood, but be strong. If I could wave a magic wand and say, I thought would save the world, it's going to be really quality mental health that's accessible and easy. it scales.

⁓ Because like this mental health, like there's a lot of baggage or not baggage, I'm going say baggage, like trauma that comes along with feeling like you're inadequate. So that to me is the answer. And that's why we are like a positive psychology firm, which is why we're we're like, what's good about what's going on? And even if you're saying something super weird to you on a session, what is it telling you actually that at the root of it, that's the truth?

Again, when I bring up the truth, though, the thing is we're in such a terrible time as related to truth. Nobody knows what the truth is anymore. And so it's like you only you're only going to like I feel like you have to go inward to figure out what is true to you. You know, really, at end of the day, in the dark room that you're sitting in, what is actually the truth of your experience? And I mean, that just takes a lot of courage and support, and we don't have it.

right now in our country. We got a really weak country, weak performative country that approximates its potential.

Keegan Goudiss (30:28)

Do know who I blame for all of this? It's hard to blame one person, but do you want to know who, if I have to name one person who I blame for all of this? Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan.

Jill (30:34)

Speaking of dictum put sorry, but

Yeah, well, who do I blame over?

Keegan Goudiss (30:40)

You're speaking victim-fit.

Yeah, I'm

sorry I could resist I wanted to go for the easy joke there but no I think that that's really profound what you're sharing and ⁓ you know sort of dancing around and you gave a great answer to pretty pretty opaque question of mine. I think what it was more direct like directly thinking of in it was I don't feel like Democrats big D Democrats Democratic leadership are prepared for the environment that we're in and I

I wish they would hire you like I wish I wish Chuck Schumer would spend more time with you. wish. I wish more folks that were, you know, quote unquote, the establishment in like there's no everybody's doing the best we can. I think I've learned like working with centrist working with moderates working with liberals and progressives and left every label you have worked with all of them and I've never really felt truly at home because it all. It all seems like they all want to blame someone.

Jill (31:19)

So.

Keegan Goudiss (31:44)

I'll see your point, right? And, and,

There's just not.

the prep like what is needed right now is not being put out there. It's just like what's a quick solution that we can think of and it and I think that like what you're talking about.

is very hard work. I wish you had the magic wand.

Jill (32:01)

Yeah.

Keegan Goudiss (32:02)

But it like. It doesn't. So I'm just going to end our episode today with like a plea to plea. You know, just hire Jill's company because or people who talk like her because I can tell you for the most of my podcasts in politics like I love you all, but you all need to like like you need need to work on yourselves like I have been trying to work on myself to be able to. Do this work better right now in this moment? That's just my take. Feel free to disagree, Joe.

Maybe not in the hiring part.

Jill (32:31)

It's not easy.

It's not easy. It's it's I think you and I have had similar dreams where we're in the ⁓ Oval Office advising certain people. believe ⁓ I know you had one recently. I had that in the past with the same same president you talked about. ⁓ I do think that we need work inside all the parties for sure. And and I want to say this is really

bold and courageous work because the problem is that when you feel like you're inadequate and you put all these defenses over your whole life, you can't even see the possibilities anymore. And so just, but so if anybody is listening this long and it can get to like, where is a teeny little opening, just a teeny opening for yourself? What are you slightly curious about? Where do you slightly feel at ease? What, where are you, you know, like where do you feel drawn in your body?

And just go there and just take that step and then take the next step and take the next step. And then your world will start to open up again. And I have to tell you, like, be also around people who have been on that journey and who can tell who will tell you it's OK over here. Like, literally, you're going to make it. You're OK over here. remember years ago working with a somatic coach and I said, my God, who am I without my defenses? I'm nothing. And when I learned that

Personalities basically just a bunch of defenses that we put in place because of early stuff and I was a mess for a long time because of that but she helped me you know in that moment she helped me to understand go sit with your back against a tree like Sit back feel supported on the ground and write it in journal whatever she gave me a little thing to do then but this is it's not easy stuff I've been on a journey I'm still on a journey but for people to have other people to support them and let them know like this is

This is like textbook stuff, human development. We know what's happening. We do at this point. You have hope. You can have hope. Just start with something small and you'll be so amazed at what unfolds. And then we'll be really amazed at what unfolds in our world. And I'm happy to be a part of any of the change that's taking place. Happy to be a part from this point of view. Thank you so much Keegan for having me and to chat with you today. This has been really fun.

Keegan Goudiss (34:56)

Jill, thank you. I appreciate all of your insights and I really appreciate you joining me my own journey and helping me so much. And I hope that we can do follow-up episode because there's no shortage of content to talk about around this. And maybe we'll even do like at some point, if you're interested in live event, as the forecast evolves, we're gonna start doing some live or some of our subscribers will come on and join.

they can get a little bit more of your amazing ⁓ insights.

Jill (35:30)

That's a great idea. I love that. I would love to join and appreciate your boldness and your bravery in the adventure Keegan.

Keegan Goudiss (35:38)

Thank you, I appreciate you.

Jill (35:40)

You too. Talk to you soon.